Board Thread:Suggestions forum/@comment-174.22.192.132-20161104024309/@comment-25012056-20161208105008

Rocket Engineer wrote: Catfishperson wrote:

Rocket Engineer wrote: Being an atheist doesn't mean you don't take moral values from existing religions. It's rather difficult to show that religion isn't needed for moral values because religion has existed for literally all of human history. I'm not claiming religion hasn't caused war and strife, but without it we'd be a lot worse off.

When religion gets mixed with politics, you get things like our Constitution. I believe you are using "No evidence against this makes it true" logic. I (being an atheist-agnostic) have worked out my own moral rules, which I have been fairly careful not to let outside ideas influence. But more to the point, whether or not "morality" stemmed from religion doesn't have any significance as to whether people today cannot make "moral decisions" without being religious.

In ways that is probably true (that in the long run, humanity would be worse off without religion), but I again fail to realize what significance this has as to whether or not religion has a place in politics.

You claim that the Constitution was a product of religion being mixed with politics? Why? The first amendment literally prohibits laws being made for religious reasons.

How would you feel if Muslims voted to prohibit wearing the color yellow, because they believed it was a sin? Actually, I'm pointing out that it's rather difficult to objectively verify that an atheist hasn't taken their moral code from a variety of religions, due to the fact that over their life, they were probably exposed to many religions and their teachings.

Politics and religion are and have been entwined for centuries. Religion influences the politicians and judges who make laws and enforce them. In addition, religion provides something that very few other things can provide: a coercive force which encourages politicians to act in the best interests of the people. If you believe that not doing so will result in eternal punishment, you would be a bit less likely to abuse your power. And the final reason is one which is, as you've pointed out, is pure speculation and opinion, and its that religion provides a moral backbone for the government.

As for the Constitution being a work of politics and religion, some sources for the ideas present in the Constitution were religious in origin, in addition to the ideas provided by John Locke and others. George Washington said "The adoption of the Constitution will demonstrate as visibly the finger of Providence as any event in the course of human affairs can designate it", one of the many statements by the founding fathers expressing their belief that God enabled the Constitution to come to be.

What the heck happened there?

Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:50, December 8, 2016 (UTC)