Board Thread:General Mod Discussion/@comment-27462565-20161205065856/@comment-26172435-20161231110644

Very nice and fitting story telling there Mevans. I would like to hear more about how you (guys) view the position and status of the avari elves who would not inhabit Dorwinion itself, but the woods west and east of the Palisor to be able to think this whole idea through and possibly come up with useful additional thoughts to strengthen the lore and logic behind it.

I would assume that if there would be no connection between the avari west of the Palisor (likely dominating Dorwinion elven culture, together with nandor from the west, and controlling and maybe inhabiting the Eryn Caran?), the threat of forces from the east overrunning Dorwinion would be more severe and they may not have been able to control the tendencies of Khaganate and Wainriders to take over Dorwinion instead of to accept a centuries long lasting symbiosis.

My guess is that the 'neutral' or an even slightly 'good' stance of the dwarves of the Orocarni and their avari trade trading partners (in the same symbiotic way as the dwarves of the Ered Luin traded their trades with the Laiquendi of Ossiriand and the Longbeards of the Iron Hills have traded with both Dale and Dorwinion in later ages), have probably outlasted millenia of evil instigated pressure to get subdued by cultures inhabiting the south-east of middle-earth and invading orcs from the breed of Angband (to their north-west) and Mordor (to their south-west). If such a powerhouse combination would not have survived there, there would have been no reason for the easterlings of the Palisor to not head west with their military might. As Tolkien noted in his later writings, the forces of the east who came to aide of Sauron in the TA, would have been far stronger and likely outnumbered the forces of the west if it weren't for a stronger counterweight of 'good' supporting forces in the east. In my interpretation Dorwinion isn't as neutral as insinuated here, and can sustain their politically dominant position (yes, I feel they hold control as a political pivot point in the region, outbalancing the opposing forces of Mordor and it's vassals) over the Palisor through careful balancing of diplomacy and trade, with strong military allies in the west with Dale, the Longbeards and the Woodland-Realm, and in the east with the dwarves of the Red Mountains and the Avari, through a network of trading routes along rivers and heavily guarded caravan routes via the northern plains. Those northern, land-based routes would only hold if these northern plains were so rugged and inhospitable that no 'barbarians' / Swarthy men or even orcs, would care to invade them and settle there. The ruggedness may be a matter of either large inland wetlands bordering the taiga (particularly in north-east of the Eryn Caran, as you guys assume rainfall there would be fit to sustain large redwood like trees (elevation differences and dominant winds may be sufficient indeed) and in to the north-west of the Orocarni), and barren elevated wastelands in the central northern plains in between those wetter lands south of the taiga. Inhospitability may be a result of both the harsh conditions, the present wildlife and lack of food sources (bad crop growth conditions and/or lack of large huntable animals) and/or the presence of large, fierce predators with vast hunting grounds (think bears, wolverines and tigers) and/or the presence of animistic tribes of men (think Crannog-men of ASOIAF) who have an interest in sustaining the caravans that travel between Dorwinion / Iron Hills / Dale and the Orocarni / Wild Woods. Only as soon as DG and Gundabad started to become dominant forces in the west, effectively weakening the military alliance that sustain Dorwinions position west of the Palisor, the Khaganate and Wainriders would have been able (willing!) to attack Dorwinion and weaken their won defences form attacks from the east. Possibly at the same time, end of the TA, forces from the south would have pounded the defences of the 'free' peoples of the north-east, so they would turn their eye from the Palisor and their remote western allies.

So ... yeah, I just let my imagination go here, spewing out many thoughts that crossed my mind during the research I did for the SA map. Hope this makes sense for now. can;t spend much time editing this and adding more today sadly.

Happy new year Mevans and mod team!

Happy new year New Zealand!