Board Thread:Suggestions forum/@comment-25356210-20150729015648/@comment-27689279-20150730213941

Glflegolas wrote:

Thorin Stonehelm wrote: i don't deny that the movies got some stuff right, but that does not necessarily make up for what they did wrong. also there are certain details from lore that they just overlooked completely. (i.e. the hobbit's going through the old forest, the fact that azog was already long dead by the time of the hobbit, or the fact that elven armor was made of steel not gold (as it seems to be in the movies) Exactly. We're not saying that everything in the movies is wrong. All we're trying to say is that if there's a contradiction between the Jackson films and the books, the books are what we go by.

Glflegolas (admin) Send a Messenger  16:37, July 30, 2015 (UTC) Thorin and Glflegolas, I already voiced out my agreement that certain timelines and lore from the movie (like Azog) should not be added (read over my responses, I've made that very clear). My gripe with these claims is design, not lore. The main statement I'm replying to is point #3 by Edacnik:

"Changing (fill in the blank) to look more like the movie." Mevans bases this mod off book lore, so no more of this.

In the matter of design, timeline and lore are completely irrelevant. They are completely separate topics and have no sway on how nice or how canon the design is, because design doesn’t affect the course of the story. And the whole gold color scheme does not contradict with the book, because nowhere in the book does it describe Wood-elven armor in detail.

Again, before the movies, there were very few good visual representations of LoTR. You make these things (like the Wood-elven armor being gold) seem like a mortal sin. Please remember that before the movies, the most notable visual depiction of the Wood-elves was ugly, withered, tiny, literal tree people (see pic below).

At some point, your expectations are a bit unrealistic, and in fact overblown, as the design could've been much worse. They didn't just make the Wood-elven armor gold because they felt like it (like you make it seem), they developed this design through deep analysis of Wood-elven culture and lore. The dark golds and reds are derived from the colors of the beech trees in Mirkwood, and the rustic brown represents the darker demeanor of the Wood-elves. Their flowing armor and curved swords reflect the ever twisting nature of the Mirkwood forest. (Source: DoS Extras)

And Elven steel is silver, you say? Iron is also the color silver, but that doesn't mean it can't be altered for other purposes. Take Iron Man; his armor is made of silver iron, which he later colored to match his preference. Wool can be originally white, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be changed in color to reflect a culture (like on a banner). Colored Elven steel (which was originally silver) is actually very plausible and makes objective sense, when coupled with the color scheme of Wood-elven culture.

What you're essentially asking for, by going completely with what little snippets the books give, are the pics on the right. And on the other hand (to the left), we have a quality concept that was selectively, consciously designed to reflect Mirkwood and the Wood-elves, based on the lore and analysis of their culture. The fact that you would pass up a great flowing, vibrant armor design because of where it came from and one minuscule color difference is just blind bias. A bias which creates this delusion that somehow, the design in the mod is more canon than that found in the movie. It is from this fallacy  that me (and many others) voice our frustration from; because the mod has so much potential to be better by adapting well designed concepts, regardless of whether it's from the movies. Unless the book explicitly states what color or pattern it's supposed to be (which it doesn't), the design is up in the air for interpretation, making both designs equally uncanon. Still, if you continue to settle for the bleak design the mod currently has, one thing remains true: you’re missing out on bigger, better potential. And for what…? An already disproven bias.

 Elvenking of the Woodland Realm  21:39, July 30, 2015 (UTC)

P.S.: It may seem like I bring up the Wood-elves a lot (especially the armor design). I don’t just use the Wood-elves as a frequent example because I’m aligned with them (not a bias, let’s be clear), it’s because it’s such a specific example as to why I (and many others) are dissatisfied with certain design choices in the mod. Such a simple change becomes a giant issue, when a blind book bias like this holds the mod back from a greater potential.