Thread:Barangolo/@comment-29773086-20180202195427

You posted a response on the thread, which has now been closed because it was a necropost. However, I'd still like to address your points.

Barangolo wrote: As with most things in the mod, this is probably the same compromise: adherence to lore vs MC (mod) logic vs real-life logic. Something may be fully following lore but would be a miss to the game due to its mechanics, for example endless water supply, selective gravity, etc.

Lore

IF mithril weapons were not mentioned by Tolkien (though the Tolkien Gateway does mention this: „The only mithril-objects at the end of the Age were only heirlooms, or new weapons forged out of existing ones.”) does not mean they did not exist.. Since armour did, logically weapons had to as well, it is not mentioned anywhere that only armour was made from mithril. Likewise if it is not specifically mentioned for every single weapon and armour type that it was made of iron, we can still safely assume that if the material lends itself to it, it was forged with it. Why would mithril be any different? So lore is open for interpretation here in my opinion, as it does not specifically deny its existence for any specific reason.

Minecraft & LotR mod mechanics

Leaving out a material that is so unique and gives further incentive to be found or used would be a real shame for long-term play: certain areas where mithril is found would lose attractivity somewhat (Utumno, Barrow-downs, Trollshaws, Ettenmoors, the Misty Mountains, etc.), places that currently provide unique loot or finding spots for this metal. Longer term incentive to grow prosperous would reach a limit, since iron would be top-tier metal and it is both cheap to reforge, as well as easy to get in both ore and loot, so in a fraction of time one could not grow any further in equipping better armour and weapons. Mithril however is a real incentive: I recently had my Legendary Blessed Enduring mithril sword forged at a total of around 15,000 coins on top of the six ingots that combine these ideal modifiers, a quarter of the coin reserve that took 2 months to acquire, that’s easily 2 weeks of hard work for a single weapon. We are still talking about a single weapon that I could loose any time in Utumno for example or by carelessly pressing the drop button when near lava.. The list of mithril items I would like to ultimately have is tenfold however, not to speak of the fact that eventually the more you have, the more mithril is required to repair them, as eventually even mithril decays, even if 5 times slower than most other steel. So mithril is a good motivator and being fully equipped with it is hardly achievable in a realistic timeframe.

Also, when comparing mithril with other MC materials on whether they were used in Middle-earth, this would make stone, gold and obsidian swords questionable as well, but not using given materials changes MC mechanics fully. Which brings me to the next point, realism.

Real-life pragmatism

Golden swords make very little sense as we know, due to the soft material that gold is and its weight, making this probably a combination making least sense and would unlikely ever have been used in Middle-earth either, even less than Mithril. The very rich would have had enough sense not to throw their lives away using one and for decoration purposes would probably rather have used the gold in trimming or different gifts and artifacts, than as a weapon. Gold for weapons should probably have to be taken out of gameplay alltogether as well, if we try to be realistic about its use.

Stone is equally nonsense due to not lending itself to be crafted, breaking quite easily and being far too heavy and blunt to be used as a sword at least. Still it’s a weapon of MC for the reason that it’s a readily available material, so its use is related to game-mechanics, not to reality. Taking it out would create a gap that needs filling with an other, equally easily available material, but there is none, since bronze is the most next logical step after stone, but is much more difficult to find than stone and requires serious forging and processing, so it makes sense that it is a valuable material that is not that easy to come by as cobblestone.

Next to the material issue, the use of the weapon decides form and function, as well as shape: the argument that mithril is light and therefore not efficient as a melee weapon (which requires momentum) highlights only one aspect of swords. Depending on shape, in certain instances speed and the sharpness of the sword can be more important than momentum through weight, just compare a heavy broadsword with a 1 kg katana. Mithril might be light, but if it’s the toughtest material, it is probably also one of the sharpest, hence with less momentum the cut still goes deeper, not to speak of the sharpness of the blade remaining intact. Also, thrusting, unlikely cutting, relies more on speed and sharpness than on weight and who said mithril swords are meant to be like double-edged ones and not curved Asian types or straight but thrusting oriented? The strength of the wielder is another factor or the fact that with less weight the swing is faster, therefore timing it to hit at the right spot is better and impact therefore also more efficient, even with less momentum.

Sharpness and durability is crucial as well, medieval sword fights hardly involved cutting and parrying with the sharp sides of the blade for this very reason and body contact was much more prevalent to avoid this: swords easily broke and went blunt during a long fight. Mithril resolves much of these issues so lends itself much better for melee weapons than any other material. If anything, the fact that a material like mithril existed in Middle-earth (non-existent in ours) probably made much more sense to create swords with than any other material we currently use, none being sharp and durable enough to this purpose. Weight therefore is actually secondary to the hardness of the metal, when it comes to the use of the weapon. If anything, the crossbow would make much less sense to be made of mithril, since weight is much more important there to stabilize the weapon as a counterweight for the projectile, making trajectory more predictable.

All in all, I believe that not explicit mentioning by Tolkien of factual use does not mean it was not used in certain ways, as logic dictates its use. From a MC and mod point of view, it makes perfect sense and adds more possibilities and incentives for questing, looting, stronger economy, etc. Most of the fictional details of factions further south especially are non-canonical, still make sense for gameplay and immersion. Why would such use of mithril not fit in then, which was an existent material and makes perfect sense?

No, mithril weapons do not exist. If something was not mentioned by Tolkien and is not a logical extension of other things he mentioned, then it cannot be said to exist in Middle-earth.

"Leaving out a material that is so unique" I'll stop you there. Removing weapons is not leaving mithril out. Mithril is not currently unique, at least in the way it is made into weapons. It's a clone of diamond which looks different and is rarer. Removal of mithril weapons, and expansion of other uses for mithril, is what will make it unique. Replacements for mithril are possible, such as a system of forging iron and steel which will allow for good weapons that are not mithril.

Gold and stone swords make no sense. I'm glad that we've established that. They should be removed too- they can be replaced by a more realistic system. However, that was not the subject of this thread.

I'm no expert on weapon-making. But I've heard several times that mithril wiuld be a bad material for swords. It's too light- if the person wielding it had to parry a blade, it would just be knocked out of the way. There is no indication at all that mithril weapons would be sharper than others. And since Tolkien never mentioned weapons, it's quite possible that some metallurgical property prevented it from being made into them.

The southern factions are logical extensions of lore; people are known to dwell in the south. Mithril weapons are not a logical extension of lore; as far as we know mithril cannot be made into effective weapons. 