Thread:OneBehindTheHair/@comment-39224884-20190521133434/@comment-34030170-20190521145551

Ah, I've seen this argument before. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're paraphrasing (not that it's important). There is a quote like that (maybe several, I'm not certain), but as far as I know, it only occurs in the Hobbit.

LotR is generally considered to be the most canon book in Tolkien's work. If something contradicts it (Goblins and Orcs possibly being considered seperate in the Hobbit), you should always refer to LotR for the right answer Azog the "Goblin" in the Hobbit is referred to as a "great Orc" in the Appendices. The band of Goblins led by Golfimbul is remembered as Bandobras Took fighting off an Orc raiding-party.

Now, let's look at the use of Goblin in LotR: while some people consider "Goblin" to refer to smaller or weaker breeds of Orcs, especially those who dwell in mountains, this is definitely not the case. Grishnakh is called a Goblin at one point. While Grishnakh is noted as being short, he's also noted as being broad, and possessing great strength; what's more, he comes from Mordor, not the mountains (straight from Barad-dur, in fact). Frankly, Grishnakh isn't the best example. A better one are the Uruk-hai: a pile of dead Uruks from Isengard, as identified by Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli, are referred to as Goblin-soldiers. Here we can see that Goblin as a name doesn't apply only to shorter Orcs of Mordor (Grishnakh), great possible Half-breed Orcs of Isengard (Ugluk and Co.), or even the huge Orcs of Moria and Gundabad (Azog and Bolg).

Tolkien thought for a while, mainly in his very early scripts, that Goblins and Orcs might be separate. Maybe even while writing the Hobbit. But by the time of LotR, that information was rendered incorrect. In fact, here's a note at the beginning of my edition of the Hobbit:

"Orc is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds). Orc is the hobbits' form of the name given at that time to these creatures, and it is not connected at all to our orc, ork, applied to sea-animals of dolphin-kind."

While I did say that the Hobbit is slightly unreliable, this note was written years after it was originally published.