User blog:Sir Lazuli/Replacing Redstone

What is this?
In this blog post I want to take a look at how to replace redstone. I want to start with the reason for doing so, then look at all the requirements a candidate system would need to fully replace redstone. Finally I want to compare some different candidate systems. I would also like to hear your input! What do you think would work, and how could it be implemented?

Reason
This mod is an unbelievable expansion to vanilla Minecraft. It adds tons of new biomes, items, plants, animals, armour, weapons, and building blocks. The generated structures are so much more varied, and the NPCs are way better than vanilla Minecraft. Questing, creative building, survival, role play, and farming are all awesome gameplay styles in the mod. However this mod is missing one major gameplay style from vanilla Minecraft - redstone building. I want to take a look at what systems could be implemented that could do all the important things redstone does.

I know players who like redstone can go back to vanilla to do that if they want. But I think this is an opportunity to make an awesome counterpart in the mod. If nothing else it should at least be able to do the most common functions of redstone like simple traps. But the more it can do the better.

I also know that you can always travel back to the Overworld to get redstone. There are two problems however:

Redstone does not fit with Middle-earth’s technology. It’s like electricity and electric circuits - it doesn’t make sense. If used at all it has to be hidden, but it still breaks immersion. It would be awesome if a more fitting system could be implemented.

A lot of servers don’t allow access to the Overworld. So this discourages, if not completely stops, players from building redstone circuits. I think these are good reasons to add a replacement system.

Requirements
Here I will list what I think are the essential requirements of a system that replaces redstone. These are the bare bones, and I think they can be boiled down to three aspects: Energy, Logic, and Components. With each of these a system will be able to transfer information from the player into useful work. As an example consider the basic piston door shown below. I will explain how each of the aspects of redstone plays its part here.

Energy
This is very important. A system can’t do anything without some sort of energy input. In redstone, energy is actually not very realistic as you can make pretty much infinite energy. Redstone blocks and torches and even levers are energy sources, and redstone dust is lit when it has energy. Energy provides two different states to any part of the system - ON and OFF. These states are the 1’s and 0’s of binary computer language. This is essential to transferring information. Redstone circuits also have signal strength which can be measured and used to create more complex circuits. This is handy, but not absolutely necessary.

The redstone torch is the energy for the piston door shown. This is not quite realistic- the door is shut when there is energy from the source and open when there isn’t. In actuality it would just need energy while opening and closing. But the circuit works.

Logic
Logic is how the circuit handles information. It changes signals from inputs to useful signals that control outputs. Logic gates are very important for correct handling of information. the most basic are AND, OR, and NOT. There are many more complex, but these are the only absolutely essential ones. An AND gate only sends an output if both inputs are ON. An OR gate sends an output if either input is ON. A NOT gate sends an output if the input is OFF.

Take a look at the piston door. There are two logic gates. The first one is an OR gate. If either button is pressed it opens the door. The second one, the torch, is a NOT gate. It keeps the door closed when nothing is pressed.

Here are some examples of possible ways to build each of these gates with redstone. The inputs are levers and the output is a redstone lamp.

The AND gate:

Components
Energy and logic are what form the language of the system, but the components are what let it actually do something useful. They can be divided into three types, all of which are necessary:

Inputs, or Sensors - Sensors take information from the surrounding world, and convert it into a signal that the circuit can use. They are what cause the circuit to do anything in the first place. They can either be controlled by the player or respond to natural stimuli in game. Examples of sensors or inputs in redstone are buttons, pressure plates, observers, tripwires, daylight sensors, and detector rails. In a real computer it would be the keyboard and mouse (and touch screen if applicable). With my piston door example the sensors are the buttons.

Circuits - Circuits perform two functions. First, they transfer signals from the input to the output. Second, they execute the logic of the system. In regular redstone the most conventional circuits use redstone dust and repeaters, but this isn’t the only way to transfer a signal. A line of hoppers with an item in it or a line of sticky pistons with redstone blocks also can be circuits. In my example the redstone dust, redstone torch, and stone block the torch is placed on make up pretty much the entire circuit. It transfers the signal and performs all of the logic.

Outputs - These are very important. They are the only way the circuit does something useful. Things like a dispenser with an arrow in it, a block of TNT next to redstone dust, a redstone lamp, and even a powered rail are all outputs. The most useful by far, however, are probably pistons because they allow the player to rearrange blocks according to the inputs to the circuit. Some sort of system that moves blocks would be very useful for a redstone replacement.

These are the main components a circuit needs to have. The only important thing not necessarily listed here is a power supply. This can be said to be an input, but sometimes it’s different. For example place a lever on a piston. The lever is the input and power supply. Conversely with a real computer the power supply is a battery and charging cord, which can be said to be part of the circuits.

Now that we’ve made a nice list of the main requirements for a replacement for redstone, let’s take a look at some candidates and see which system works best.

Replacements
First of all I think it’s important to look at what the mod team has said they are planning before exploring other alternatives. The Planned Features page mentions something:

Rope system for signal transmission (replicant for redstone wiring)

The link there goes to this thread where Mevans stated this regarding replacement of redstone:

“When I do eventually implement a redstone substitute, it will be based on ropes, not wires. We've had that planned since around the time the gates were first being developed.”

The comment is also validated by a whopping 22 kudos. This is some good information about what sort of system will be approached, but it leaves a lot to the imagination. Let’s take a look at how a rope system could fulfill the role.

Ropes
In my opinion the best way to use ropes would be with pulleys. The OFF state would obviously be when the ropes are sitting still, while the ON state would be when power is applied so the ropes are moving and the pulleys are spinning.

Keep in mind there could also be chains crafted from metal, which would work the same as ropes but look creepier.

There are several options for how power could be supplied. I think windmills are possible, as there are already windmill models in the mod (though nonfunctional). The problem is that there really isn’t any wind so it would seem weird. But windmills could be added that steadily spin and provide power. Water wheels would also be a good option. An infinite water supply could turn the wheel, providing power to the rope system.

To make the circuits pulleys and gears would probably be necessary.

For inputs things like brakes and gates to water flow would be cool. For outputs the ropes could do things like lift buckets or platforms with items, or blocks themselves. Logic would be very tricky with a rope system but I think possible. Here’s one way you could make a NOT gate for example:

Imagine two troughs pouring water, with a water wheel at the base of each. The first water wheel is attached to a brake; the brake is your input. The second water wheel powers a rope that is the output. There’s a block above the trough to the second waterwheel, suspended by a counterweight. When you release the brake on the first water wheel it powers a rope that raises the counterweight, allowing the block to lower into the trough and turn off the second water wheel. This is rather complex but would be pretty cool.

For other outputs bells come to mind. They could be small bells set in different rooms in a house, or enormous bells in a bell tower. They don’t really physically do much but they could be useful for alerting players or NPCs.

Mines would be very cool with rope elevators and hoists and cranes. Perhaps a rope system could be used to make siege weapons, but I think that would be too complex. It would be better to have discrete craftable siege weapons.

But wait - there’s already an output for the system that the mod team has implemented into the game! The Millstone.

It might have something to say about what sort of system is used. Take a look at the texture: When it is powered, the top piece appears to revolve. But more importantly, there are small circles on the top and every side that also spin when the millstone is powered. It appears that the mod team might be planning on adding some sort of spinning shaft that will connect there. Note that if they do the circles on the sides will need to be moved upwards to be in the middle of the block. Keep in mind this is just my speculation. It would make sense to have shafts as well as ropes. When ropes spin pulleys, the pulleys would spin shafts which in turn could spin more pulleys or gears. All this would make for a fairly complete system.

Ropes could move blocks, there’s just one problem: ropes can only pull, not push. They could pull doors open, but the system would need some sort of rod or something to slide the door shut so that you don’t need ropes on both sides (making it impossible to walk through).

For more on a rope / pulley / shaft / gear / water wheel / windmill system see this speculation by Minecraftmage113.



For the sake of comparison I think it’s a good idea to look at some other possible systems as well.

Steam


This would be really cool. You would build pipes connected to a boiler, which you fill with water. When you provide energy to heat the boiler, it becomes steam. The steam supplies pressure to the pipes (ON state) which can be controlled by valves. It would be simple enough to make blocks for valves controlled by pressure (ex. One valve is held open or shut by springs until pressure is applied from another pipe). This could very easily make a logic array, much more simply than ropes.

Steam could also push pistons. Perhaps it could be attached to vanilla pistons or perhaps its own pistons. The only thing is that steam couldn’t really pull. Steam pushing pistons could spin shafts, and do all sorts of cool things.

The best part about steam of course is the fact that it’s highly pressurized so if you do something wrong everything violently explodes. All in all I think steam would be a really cool system and could do almost everything redstone can with the right components. There’s just one problem - it doesn’t fit. The technology, while still a few centuries old, is too modern for the world of Middle-earth. So unfortunately I think this is a no-go.

Water Pressure
This is more plausible than steam. It could work in essentially the same way with pipes and valves, only instead of a boiler it would have an elevated water reservoir as a power source. It wouldn’t explode if things go wrong. It’s also an older technology - the Maya in Central America had some form of water pressure for one.

It also appears that water pressure technology was used in Middle-earth, at least by the Elves. Gondolin, which was build atop a hill, is stated to have had a fountain.

Water pressure could push pistons. Pipes could be made out of clay, bronze, copper, tin, and iron. But all in all it might not be as versatile as a rope system.

Beacons


I don’t think beacons could be a sufficient replacement for redstone, but it is interesting to note that they can transfer information. If there was a way to automatically turn them off (or an NPC to douse them after some signal or something) they could be interesting. They would also need to do something besides lighting up. If troops went over to the nearest beacon, then you could have beacons on all the towers of your fort that were “programmed” to light up in succession, resulting in patrols along your walls. This is just a thought, I don’t think it could do much that redstone does though.

Molten Metal


Again, this is an interesting thought. This is more for manufacturing factories than abstract signal transmission. It would be absolutely awesome if crucibles were added, which could heat metal into liquid. They could then pour the metal into troughs. By valves you could control where the metal flowed and what it did. A new block, the Mould, would be added. I’m not sure how you would craft it, but it would most likely be on a faction’s crafting table. Here’s what it would look like for the Dwarven Sword, for example:

You would need the item to make the mould around, but this item is not used up in crafting. The mould has an inventory slot. When you pour molten metal in it fills up, then cools into the item, and can then release it into a hopper. As cool as this would be, it would necessitate a huge overhaul to the entire system of crafting in vanilla Minecraft, so it’s probably not worth it.

Waterworks


This is something interesting that could be used with any system that uses water wheels. If a system like the rope one described above is implemented, water wheels would probably be a power source. If the ropes could lift blocks they could control where water flowed, thus allowing creation of things like redstone clocks. There are mentions of fountains and aqueducts and things in the books, making this plausible. This would also work with a water pressure system, but I am putting it separately because here I am just talking about water in open channels. It would be an interesting way to control information. This was very useful in my description of an idea for a NOT gate above under Ropes.

Copper Wiring
This idea was brought up by S’moregoth here. It’s a good idea, since copper is in the mod and copper circuits could act similar to redstone. However it is a little too modern for the mod and Mevans has stated he doesn’t want to use wires as the base for a system.

Gunpowder Trails


This idea comes from this thread by Lord Epicus!. It could be quite fascinating, with branching trails doing different things. There are a few problems though. First of all gunpowder really wouldn’t do much other than lighting TNT. It’s fun to blow stuff up but you can’t use that to control sophisticated circuits. Also gunpowder is one-use. Once you burn a trail it will be gone, meaning you will have to rebuild the whole system every time you wanted to use it. It would be a fun feature to add, but not a full replacement for redstone.

Conclusion
I think that ropes are definitely the most plausible candidate. In addition to fulfilling the basic requirements, they have the possibility to be a very versatile system. A rope system would be fascinating because there are so many different types of components that could be added.

But I would like to hear your thoughts! Are there any other systems that might work? What do you think of the way I analyzed the requirements and other possible systems? And am I understanding the ropes system correctly, or do you think it would look different? And thanks for reading this post!