Board Thread:Fun and Games/@comment-29360236-20160806123845/@comment-26347028-20160817202349

Catfishperson wrote: Maltalidenta Kwuitidherali wrote: Catfishperson wrote: Maltalidenta Kwuitidherali wrote: Catfishperson wrote: Melkor was able to do something that no other vala could; think his own thoughts and have his own ideas and visions of what he thought a perfect world would be. And they were not initially evil... It was only after Eru and the other valar shot his thoughts down that he grew jealous and bitter. If any other of the valar had possessed his power, and his yearn to create and think, They would have wound up just like him. They thought their own thoughts. They just thought their own thoughts that were similar to Eru's, and realised that to achieve them they needed to co-operate, not destroy. Varda was against him from the start, because she knew what he was up to. Since she knew, I think it's reasonable to assume that he was in some way evil still there, and she was able to see what he would become. That's why he is so afraid of her. Everyone else among the Ainur that went to Arda yearned to create - that's why they went. And together, they had power superior to that of Melkor. But together, were they evil? Their thoughts were exactly the same as Eru´s, so they were not really their thoughts. And Melkor didn´t destroy until it became clear to him that destroying was the only way he could realize his ideas. It was stated that Melkor was not initially evil, Varda was against him not because he was ¨evil¨ (in fact, that word literally had no meaning at the time, and so to even claim that Melkor was evil means absolutely nothing,) but because she knew that his ideas conflicted with Eru´s and that conflict and suffering were inevitable. Although the other Valar wanted to create, they did not as much as he did. And although the other Valar combined were more powerful then Melkor, they were separate entities.

@Theo (Can I call you Theo?), the name that others gave to him means nothing. It is true that he was their enemies, but they were also his enemies. You do realise that Eru created Melkor as he was, hence Eru's thoughts were certainly not the same as those of the Valar? Eru created Morgoth so he would disobey, and Varda saw that. She saw what he would become - the seeds of the evil. But Eru's thoughts were to create contrast. Evil will never go, simply because without it there is no good. I agree that logically, every part of a being created by another being in the way that Eru created Melkor, would be intended; However it was stated that Eru did not want Melkor to turn out the way he did, and we have to take lore before logic in this. Where in lore?