Board Thread:General Mod Discussion/@comment-26486187-20160925013413/@comment-26322120-20160929030501

Recneps wrote: One last comment.. Man IS, but they wouldn't have reached that if they hadn't fallen extinct. The human race likely would never have existed if that were the case..

On the subject.. Wargaz, the Age of Men happened, except Gondor was far from the most powerful of Mannish Kingdoms. It had fallen greatly in strength. Let's take what would've happened, based on the forces given, if the Haradrim(I'm counting Umbar) had attacked Gondor by themselves, without Gondor having allies. For one thing, the naval forces would have actually arrived, not been hijacked by Rangers and Spirits. For another, those massive Mumakil would be fighting against quite fewer enemies, especially cavalry. And also, you may be thinking that they never would've gotten a good attack on the Pelennor, because of Rammas Echor, Osgiliath, etc.. They would've. They have tons of ships, and could fairly easily land an army on an uninhabited section of the Gondorian coastline. Possibly Andrast. Then they might have trouble getting that army up to Rammas Echor and the Pelennor undetected, but they already have an army behind the enemy's main defenses. If they reach the Pelennor, then Rammas Echor would honestly not be too hard to take.. It's a great, big wall.. But long. Unless the Gondorians had forewarning, then it should be fairly easy for the Haradrim to take a section and then enter the Pelennor through that. You can't defend a wall as long as the Echor with nearly the same strength as you can with a city wall. Once they're in the Pelennor.. Well, most of the Gondorians forces would be coming from South of the Pelennor. If the Gondorians had forewarning, they'd have been racing to reach the Pelennor. Any that were found by the Haradrim could easily be defeated, as the Haradrim have a complete army. Any that weren't? Well, they'd either beat it to the Pelennor, and be absorbed into the defense there, or they'd come up after the Haradrim, and be a flanking force, but weary from marching and isolated from the bulk of the army in both planning and supplies. If the defenders in Minas Tirith managed to get a messenger out, then the levies could be effective, as they could be intercepted by the messenger and rally out of sight from the Haradrim. When enough of them arrived, they'd be able to launch a successful flanking attack. However, if the Haradrim had left defenders on Rammas Echor, such a tactic would likely fail, as the Haradrim would have forewarning of any gathering of men. If they managed to do a successful flanking before the Haradrim had taken the city, they'd probably win. If not? Well, they'd be slaughtered at the city's walls. And as to the Haradrim taking the city.. Well, the Gondorians wouldn't have their full forces pulled into the city. They'd also have pretty much no cavalry for harrying. It really depends on any siege equipment the Haradrim have, and the true size of a Mumak. If the Mumak are the same size as, or slightly larger than, modern elephants, then they could be all but ignored in a siege such as this. If they were the size they've been portrayed as in the movies, then they'd be very deadly. In fact, according the the Red Book, the Mumak used in TWoTR were indeed a good 40 or fifty feet tall.