Board Thread:Suggestions forum/@comment-25012056-20170310224811/@comment-26834366-20170315164417

Gen. Grievous1138 wrote: Lord Epicus! wrote: Gen. Grievous1138 wrote: Lord Epicus! wrote: Gen. Grievous1138 wrote: High King Ithilion wrote: Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

Lord Epicus! wrote:

Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

Lord Epicus! wrote:

Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

Lord Epicus! wrote: I have a better idea for your morgul-blades: When striking a player with one, the target player gets a debuff that lasts around 30 minutes or so, and when the debuff ends, the players instantly dies and a wraith takes it's place. To end the debuff and live, the players needs to drink potent miruvor. And the crafting recipe doesn't make much sence to me, how does 8 gulduril blocks make anything that powerful? I think it would be better to just leave these morgul-blades un-craftable for now.

I get morgul orc and uruk armour, and I guess knight armour is acceptable, but I have to disagree with the warrior armour and all those fancy helmets. This is a subfaction, not it's own huge faction that deserves 5 kinds of armour and 2 extra fancy helmets, I just find that a bit much for a subfaction. Thirty minutes? That seems a bit long for an in-game effect... As for crafting, do you realize how expensive eight full blocks of gulduril is?

Well, what would you rather warriors have? Knight armor is made for men, and if they were given Uruk armor they would be near-identical to uruks. The idea is to make them look distinct. It's easier for the good players that way, in a sense.

Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 22:45, March 12, 2017 (UTC) I know how expensive 8 blocks of gulduril is, but I'm just saying the recipe seems a little silly, like cramming a bunch of crystal blocks into a knife is sorta like saying "oh make dis armor stronger by surrounding with 8 mithril blocks", if you know what I mean? The effect time could of course be changed in config, but I guess sometime around 15-20 minutes is cool to.

I don't really like the idea of morgul warriors, I think that just normal orcs, uruks, and the knights are cool. The orcs are normal soldiers, the uruks are the more elite soldiers, the knights cavalry, and the warriors are just there... See MrHobit's comment about this to. They are undeniably canon: Boromir I was killed in a battle in which no Nazgûl or men were present by a Morgul-wound in the Third Age, meaning that orcs with Morgul-weapons were present and existed. That's more than can be said for many less powerful things.

Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 00:08, March 13, 2017 (UTC) If any NPC should have morgul weapons, make it the uruks rarely, no need to add another type of soldier that is basically an uruk but has a chance to have an OP weapon. 30 seconds of wither and 8 damage is, in my opinion, too OP for something so cheap, and in the hands of an NPC is a little much.

These warriors are essentially Uruks themselves. The fact that the knives only have one use per warrior blows away any hint of overpoweredness completely, in my opinion. It's not like they'll be spam-attacking with the blades. But you need to remember that they should be extremely powerful. This was the strongest part of by far the most powerful faction in Middle-Earth, second only to Barad-dûr itself.

Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:28, March 13, 2017 (UTC) While I do agree that they should be added, Mordor being strongest does not mean strongest units. It means most units. Just because Mordor was a dominating power doesn't mean that they should get hundreds of OP af units coming out their ass.

Ithilion, Discussions Moderator (Auta i lome) 11:26, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

True, but one (eh, or two) isn't hundreds. :-P

Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 19:59, March 13, 2017 (UTC) Not hundreds, but still unnecessarily a lot, compared to most other factions.

That's two total, if you are referencing Ologs (which I presume you are). Rangers are entirely powerful units in their own right, as are many good-side units. I have no problem with this (well, I think several should have counters, but so do the ones we are discussing).

But that aside, Morgul Warriors aren't all that OP. They go in once with a Morgul Knife (not the blade, mind you) and then become Morgul Uruks with slightly raised health and cooler armor. It means one NPC in the opposing army is screwed, but the others are good to go. They're like weaker (in some ways, stronger in armor) Angmar Warriors. Those were very much fightable. So are these. And besides, they're extemely rare and extremely expensive.

Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 21:50, March 13, 2017 (UTC) Sorry about the wait, reasons.

The Morgul Warriors can deal 30 seconds of wither, I don't know how much damage that equals, but surely enough to kill an NPC, or likely even a player. I'm not arguing about whether they're canon, I'm arguing about whether it's needed to add another unit, quests, armour, and titles when you could just have the uruks have a chance to spawn with a morgul knife.

When the warriors have a 100% chance on spawing with a morgul knife (correct me if I'm wrong there), whether they're expensive or not, they are, if not OP, very, very powerful units, that can likely kill another unit with a single stab. While backed up with other warriors (or uruks, as they're pretty much the same thing, just lacking in aesthetics) or really any other unit, that is what makes them OP. One by itself, sure that's do-able, but when backed up, that's a different story.

Also I would like to mention how you say that Boromir I was killed by an orc with a morgul weapon, that shouldn't be taken as "oh, they must have a specific elite class that must all have morgul weapons" and in having a unit that can guarantee kill nearly any common good dude NPC, and/or player.

In addition to my additional statement, that must be really expensive for Sauron to arm an entire elite-class of warriors with morgul weapons and fancy armour.

That would be an instakill for most. But it's supposed to be, and it's only one instakill. But - as said previously - these would be extremely rare naturally. It would be easier to find a High Elven Hall. When they do have the knife, yes, that is really powerful... for one hit. And heaven forbid if the player hit has milk on them.

But you point about them being OP when backed up makes little sense. The knife disappears after one use. Once it's gone, they're regular uruks that take sun debuffs. Backing them up with Morgul Uruks is like backing up Morgul Uruks with Morgul Uruks. There is nothing overpowered about that. And the cost of hiring enough of these guys to make a small army would cost enough silver to keep one mining for a week on end.

And I ask you in turn: Why would anyone in their right mind give these things away to run-of-the-mill Uruks? Surely they would have significantly better training beforehand? They would be extremely few in numbers, but I would argue that they would be their own (isolated) group.

Sauron is rich and would have the resources. Don't put anything past him.

Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 11:27, March 15, 2017 (UTC) Ah shit, good points XD however, I do believe that Morgul Uruks would have the training to wield morgul weapons over silly orcs, and I still think that 30 seconds of wither is a little OP, like you find 2 gulduril and you can kill anyone you want in a duel, and then if you find more gulduril, you could have half a hotbar full of morgul knives!