Board Thread:Suggestions forum/@comment-27200931-20170426224854/@comment-31907131-20170429103803

Gen. Grievous1138 wrote: High King Ithilion wrote: Okay, let's all calm down. The theories he proposed are that they were Men, beasts taught basic language, or the least of the Maiar. Men he said was most likely. It is therefore conceivable that the first Orcs were Maiar or beasts, and later were bred from Mannish stock. Along with that, it isn't a stretch to assume the rigorous training and treatment would harden and lengthen the lives of Orcs. This would explain the longevity of Bolg-they were not purely Mannish, and furthermore were the result of years of the breeding of the strong.

However, the Elven theory, though used earlier (in the published Silmarillion, and probably the explanation of Bolg) is demonstrably untrue. Orcs, Tolkien decided, were not Elves.

Ithilion, Discussions Moderator (Auta i lómë) 12:31, April 28, 2017 (UTC)

It makes more sense than the other theories, tbh. While men could've been used for later stock, Elves are the best originators for the original orcs and the later Uruks.

Honestly, it's the word of Tolkien versus logic here. The original Orcs could not have been Men, as Men were not even in existence yet. Corruption from Elves was not only featured commonly throughout his drafts, but also makes makes more sense for the longevity aspect. However, it could be likely that Snagae - which did not appear until later in Melkor's reign - were bred from men, as the original Uruks were much more powerful, which could mean that the original Uruks were the ancestors of later Orc chieftains, like Bolg, Azog, the Great Goblin (who it's hinted was present at the Fall of Gondolin, by the way), and others.

+Hobbit: The Balrog did rule over Moria. The orcs were terrified of him, of course: the considered him a god. You'd be terrified too. In addition, they followed him into battle in FOTR.

Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:15, April 29, 2017 (UTC) Men were in existence before Orcs. Eru propounded his theme to the Ainur long before Melkor ever bred an Orc. But you are correct in that, at least in the Silmarillion, Orcs were in Middle-Earth before Man awoke.

But there are two things to consider:

The Silmarillion was written, in its various parts, before Tolkien had arrived at the notion of Orcs being bred from Men. So of course it supports the 'Elvishness' of Orcs.

The Silmarillion was supposed by Tolkien to be written/ compiled by Elendil the Tall. Written such a long time after the actual events, it may supposed to be not completely accurate. Elendil may have decided the Men > Orcs theory wasn't quite to his liking, either, and changed it.