Board Thread:Suggestions forum/@comment-33655702-20171115222455/@comment-33009418-20171117235918

ElenionoftheFirmament wrote: Swordsbane wrote:

ElenionoftheFirmament wrote:

Swordsbane wrote:

Recneps wrote: Cutting and piercing are not the same thing. Also remember that Mumakil are not the gigantic beasts portrayed in the movies, simply a large variant of elephants. I know this, thank you kindly.

ElenionoftheFirmament wrote:

Swordsbane wrote:

ElenionoftheFirmament wrote:

Swordsbane wrote:

71.65.116.164 wrote: If you kill the mumakil then you should get that ??? Please say that understandably.

ElenionoftheFirmament wrote:

Swordsbane wrote:

ElenionoftheFirmament wrote: Also, long pikes would be extremely effective. All that the defending army would have to do is something similar to what Alexander of Macedon's army did against Persian chariots. The line of pikes would fold out and around the sides of the Mumak as it charged. Stymied by the pikes that are prodding at its face, it would slow down while the pikemen on the sides mauled it with their pikes. However, it should take very elite units not to break under the onslaught of a giant war-beast. Ithilion, arrows, siege weapons, & heavy explosives, then? That would make sense.

Elenion, pikes only slow it down, not killing it.

Creeper, I'd say that a 500 lbs. rock thrown by a catapult, or a mis-used/hijacked strength 3 orc bomb would do significant damage... They aren't made of mithril, after all. No, pikes can kill it. If you have say, thirty guys shoving gigantic poles with sharp metal tips into your side, you would be running, or dying. Can a splinter kill you? When a mouse is pushing it into you? You can defend from the Mumakil with pikes, but not kill it, as its' hide is to thick. The only way it'ld work is if it got a pike rammed in its' eye. They'ld shy away, like horses do. & if all else fails, the driver could get the Mumakil to swat the pikes with its' tusks. Allow me to clear some things up. Firstly: Pikes can pierce chain mail, which is considerably stronger and more resistant to slashing and piercing than the hide of any beast. You seem to think that a Mumak's skin is made of solid iron, not skin. Secondly: humans are as a matter of fact, pretty strong. We are fully capable of driving pikes into the sides of an elephant, or one of the Mumakil. Thirdly, when you have 15-30 guys stabbing you from all sides, how are you going to stop all of the pikemen from attacking you with only your tusks? Seems pretty difficult, right? Archers on the back = dead pike men (or at least, hindered). Can you FATALLY wound an elephant/Mumakil with pikes without stabbing its' eyes? I'm aware that pikes can peirce chain, but only when used against a charge, or swung like a poleaxe. & living elephant/mumakil hide is thick & resistant to cutting (Mumakil hide even more so). Yes, it probably could stop a good pike stab, but hide + chain is highly effective armor. Take a good look at Ithilion's Mumak demographic. Does it seem like there would be room for enough archers to effectively hinder an elite pike force? And yes, you can fatally wound one of the Mumakil with only pikes. A good, strong thrust with a man's (or multiple men's) body weight behind it is enough to drive the shaft through the skin, and into the main body cavity. I'll state it again: If pikes are effective against chain, why should they do worse aginst a softer target? The elastic properties of skin/hide hinder piercing/cutting. Do multipal pikemen in mod gang up to use the same pike? No, they don't. In mod, what works against them, not IRL. Elasticity of elephantine skin won't affect to any significant degree what happens when a guy shoves a fifteen-foot pole through the side of its ribcage. The skin of a mumak would be at most three to four inches thick, easily pierced by any reasonable pike head. Yes, but:

1. how deep must you push it/how close must you get to kill it?

2. Is it or it's riders going to just sit there & let you do so?

Let's just agree that they'd be very difficult to kill & leave it at that? 1. Not far, if the pike is actually long.

2. If it is surrounded by pikemen, stabbing it from all directions, then it really isn't going to be going anywhere.

I can agree that they would indeed be very difficult to kill. That is why I said that only an elite unit of pikemen would be able to kill it. Stoping after this, but you'd still lose quite a few of the pikemen, because it would start thrashing, snapping the pikes & sending the pikemen flying.