Board Thread:General Mod Discussion/@comment-26149161-20150731144946/@comment-27689279-20150803230619

CaptCaptain wrote: You do realize your entire point is saying that you're presenting facts, but you're really not.

The movie armour may be the only design we have of Mirkwood soldiers in large-scale combat, but that doesn't mean any of it can be cited as a fact. We have more canon-designs of standard Mirkwood garb in the form of Legolas, and it makes more sense'''. '''I'm not saying this as "I think" because I KNOW that it makes much more sense. It isn't even about the whole "blending in" for large scale combat, but the fact that there is no way that Mirkwood can supply thousands of elves with that type of high quality armour. And you're forgetting that the War of the Ring also happened up north, and Mirkwood had to fight off Dol Guldur. I'm damn sure there was at least a couple large/mid scale battles which would feature at least some proper soldiers of Mirkwood, and not sentries. Since all those battles would have presumably taken place inside of the forest, green, brown or that kind of armour would make a whole lot more sense than shiny, bright gold.

Again, these are all opinions. Just like how the "experts" that you cite without a source had opinions of what Mirkwood armour should look like. We at the mod team and the large majority of people playing this mod disagree with that view. Sure, the current textures in the mod may look bad, but it makes more sense (at least in our opinion). If it really bothers you that much, I can ask Gruk, or even I myself can try at improving the texture. But that does not mean that you've been stating facts. factfakt/noun #a thing that is known or proved to be true.

So no, since the movies aren't canon, you haven't been stating facts, just opinions. Even if those opinions come from "experts", that does not make them any more true. With that said, the mod isn't canon either,we just strive to not contradict canon in any way, and would prefer to follow canon whenever possible.

That does not mean we hate the movies, I think I can speak for everyone in the mod team when I say we like them a whole lot, but that doesn't mean we will copy whatever the movies offer when we feel we can do better. A few of the members in the mod team also like Shadow of Mordor, does that mean we will go around adding their random assortment of animals and beasts?

All that said, I DID agree with you on the other thread about blindly hating on the movie design, we've used some of them before, or at least drew inspirations, and I don't doubt we may do so again. Ok, so since you seem to think my statements are "not fact", then how--why? This is the main answer in trying to disprove my statements that you (and the rest) simply cannot give (and have not given at all, at any point, only "I think"), because there is simply no logical backing to use (since everything objective points in favor of my points). You're right, a fact is something that is "known or proved to be true". Is the movie armor having ties with book lore and culture not "known or proved to be true"? Is the mod being no less canon than the movies, not "known or proved to be true"? Is the bias against certain (not all) movie designs being incorrect, based on these factual grounds, not "known or proved to be true"? These are just a couple of the many points you are trying to deem as "not factual", yet it is undeniable that the answer to these questions is yes (that they are known and observable by everyone, therefore making it, by definition, "fact”); whether you or I feel a certain way, does not change the correctness of these facts. This is what you continue to miss; that it is not coming from my personal feelings, but from aspects we can all clearly see. I'm not conjuring these things from within, I'm merely pointing out what's obviously out there and observable by all.

If you're honestly going to try and recycle the "camoflauge" point, which has already been disproved for the soldiers (it absolutely makes sense for scouts, though), then you can read back to my appropriate response above (in past statements). And how do you know they didn't have the resources to conjure an army such as this? How do you know that a certain armor or specific fighting style was used against Dol Guldur? Unlike the lore backing for the golden armor, there is nothing in the books that limit the Wood-elven resources to make an army or determine specifically what kind of fighting style they chose to implement when battling Dol Guldur. And no, I didn't cite the movie designers in a way where their expertise makes anything true (that would be appealing to authority, which is a fallacy); I brought up that point to negate the assumption that the movie armor was made gold because PJ simply thought it would "look cool", and that they didn't care about the book at all (like most try to make it seem).

And again, you cite "the movies" as one umbrella, timeline and design; I've already refuted this claim, as while the timeline is far from canon (which we can all agree on), the designs have canon roots and do not contradict anything in the book. And Shadow of Mordor is a completely different example than the movies, because while the game creates an entirely new story, the movies are adaptations of the already existing canon story. Timeline-wise, the movies will always remain nothing more than an adaptation, and factually uncanon; design, on the other hand, has no correlation to the faulty timeline (because it doesn't change the course of the story), and in fact has many lore bases. So using examples like the "movies" as a whole, or something entirely uncanon as Shadow of Mordor, is a misuse of analogies and misinformation on my previous statements.

So now you say that both the mod and the movies are uncanon, I see your stance has changed since the start of this discussion. At least, from this discussion (both the present and previous thread), a topic has been acknowledged and recognized to refute an illogical bias; you and maybe a few others are beginning to see this, and it is the start of steps forward, into doing away with the closed mentality, and widening the horizons for possibilities of more great designs.

 Elvenking of the Woodland Realm  23:06, August 3, 2015 (UTC)