Board Thread:General Mod Discussion/@comment-27860585-20160227122451/@comment-26322120-20160509162039

Maltalidenta Kwuitidherali wrote: Catfishperson wrote: Alright 75.213.130.147, if it weren't for the selfishness and evil of a few elves *cough Feanor cough*, Melkor would have been vanquished long before he could have done most of the evils he has, such as infecting men with his evil. And then we would all be in paradise, instead of the more or less hell we are living in right now. Gimli the dwarf, proved himself superior to Legolas the elf at the battle of Helms Deep.

Your argument is composed of the biological strengths of elves, without giving full attention to the biological strengths of the dwarves. Here are a few quotes from the Silmarilion giving those in detail:

''"Since they were to come in the days of the power of Melkor, Aulë made the Dwarves strong to endure. Therefore they are stone-hard, stubborn, fast in friendship and in enmity, and they suffer toil and hunger and hurt of body more hardily than all other speaking peoples;"

"Therefore Thingol took thought for arms, which before his people had not needed, and these at first the Naugrim smithied for him; for they were greatly skilled in such work, though none among them surpassed the craftsmen of Nogrod [dwarf city in the Ered Luin], of whom Telchar the smith was greatest in renown [forged Narsil/Anduril wielded by Elendil/Aragorn]. A warlike race of old were all the Naugrim, and they would fight fiercely against whomsoever aggrieved them: servants of Melkor, or Eldar, or Avari, or wild beasts, or not seldom their own kin, Dwarves of other mansions and lordships. Their smithcraft indeed the Sindar soon learned of them; yet in the tempering of steel alone of all crafts the Dwarves were never outmatched even by the Noldor, and in the making of mail of linked rings, which was first contrived by the smiths of Belegost, their work had no rival."

''"Last of all the eastern force to stand firm were the Dwarves of Belegost, and thus they won renown. For the Naugrim withstood fire more hardily than either Elves or Men, and it was their custom moreover to wear great masks in battle hideous to look upon; and those stood them in good stead against the dragons." '  ''' If Fëanor hadn't left, it's more likely that Melkor would've triumphed. The Valar are stated to have seen the plight of the Noldor, not of the Sindar; certainly not man or Dwarf. Therefore, if he hadn't left they'd be worse off because of Melkor. I'm not saying him leaving was good, but it was necessary in the grand scheme of things. And Gimli was roughly even with the young elf. After all, Legolas isn't a fighter as much as a messenger and representative - for the Nandor, no less!
 * For those who haven't read the Silmarilion, The Naugrim are the dwarves.

Anyway, does Legolas not run along the top of the snow. Is he not swifter than the rest? Are Elven archers not renowned probably more than the Dwarven pikemen?

The fact that they're stubborn isn't much. If you can last long in a battle it doesn't inherently mean you can deal any real damage. That's why they're "fast in friendship", they need them to deal the damage.

You seem to forget who taught the Dwarves in the first place. Elves. Sure, some Nandor may have lost some of their skill over time. But it was always the Calaquendi that were the best. And are the Nandor Calaquendi? They're not even Sindar!

Sure, some Dwarves wore masks which made them more effective against Dragons. That's a tiny minority doing a small thing; hardly anything specific to Dwarves or Elves.

I fail to see how this is any real evidence as to them being better.

The reason the Valar didn´t intervene for so long (long enough for Morgoth to corrupt men and countless other things) was because they were still pissed at Feanor. Legolas was clearly trained in battle, as he fought well enough to slay 30-something Uruk Hai.

I would think that your definition of ¨stubbornness,¨ that is ¨strength, toughness, loyalty, determination, and being superior to elves and men in the respects of toil and metabolism,¨ would be a lot more useful then the ability to ¨walk on snow.¨

It is true that some elves taught some dwarves language, that was good of them, but the elves came first. I don´t believe that this warrants the dismiss of dwarves complete superiority in the respects of smithing.

In one of the largest battles in all of Arda´s history, the dwarves, not the elves or men who had far superior numbers, and could ¨walk on snow,¨ but the dwarves were the last of the free people to stand against Morgoth. The dwarves of Belegost were not a tiny minority by any means, nor was the ¨Nirnaeth Arnoediad¨ a ¨small thing.¨ In fact, it was this that allowed the sins of Feanor to escape.