Board Thread:General Mod Discussion/@comment-26149161-20150731144946/@comment-27689279-20150802004512

Sinthoniel wrote: I think I understand why this discussion is not satisfying for anyone. You completely got me wrong. I was never arguing which armour is better. I was arguing if it makes sense to change it. Since both armours are (like you said) equally true or false to the lore, it's all a matter of personal opinion. And because there will always be people who prefer the one or the other, no perfect decision can be made. That's why Mevans decides it. That's not fallacy because this IS Mevans mod. We were all the time arguing about a different question, so it's obvious that we can't  reach each other. My points addressed both (better and sensible to add to the mod). You and I weren't missing a single thing. The movie armor, putting subjective things aside (like which color is better), is objectively better. Objective: it's not based on opinion, it's something that's tangible, someting that's countable, etc (a fact). The movie design is objectively better simply because it packs more well-developed features (again, horns, shield, etc. This is tangible, not opinion, and is undeniable) than the current (which is more or less reskinned Vanilla armor), regardless of color or lore bases. And now that the mod has yellow beech trees and red oaks like the book (that match the dark golds and reds), the golden armor has sensible grounds to be implemented, unlike what you've been saying (that it "doesn't make sense").

My (and many others') gripe is, despite these clearly observable facts, the latter will continue to be implemented simply because of an opinion about the movies, despite the movies putting forward great content that follows book descriptions of their culture, more or less. Mevans and the the rest of the admins (at least the ones who have come forward) can go on about how much wrong is in the movies (like you said), that is lore and timelines, and I agree. But you're putting their bad timelines/lores and great design under one umbrella, which is not factually accurate. It's this unwillingness to set aside petty grievances of lore and timeline that the movies got wrong (which I agree they got wrong, and should not be implemented), and associate those flaws with that of design. I've already pointed out in past posts how design and timeline/lore are completely separate topics, and do not (and should not) affect each other. It's simply unfair to say the design was bad because the movies were bad (that's essentially the core of your statements); this holds back the mod from better things.

It is Mevans' mod, and it did start out as his project. He continues to head it, but it's become so much more than that. From the mod, has sprouted a community (one that I'm proud to be a part of) and a multitude of users. No longer is it a "small, personal project", but a body of people who care about the same series and mod. As a community with ties to the mod, we have a voice and the right to give input on what areas of the mod could be better. But despite the clear evidence, to turn it down because of subjective reasons that have already been proven to have no factual basis, is where the frustration stems from. Hence, taking matters directly and bringing forth a resource pack, which continues to grow in adoption and satisfaction (making your claim of the design "making no sense to be in the mod" ever more brittle, because if it were illogical as you've claimed it to be, it wouldn't be as adopted). Why I reasoned with all these posts is not only to gain a slim chance of this truth being adopted by the mod itself (since it doesn't hurt to inject the possibility), but to bring to light an unecessary bias that is holding the mod back from some great changes in design. (Why I am still here is to keep people from distorting my words and paint me to be something I'm not)

I will hold you up to that (we may never see eye-to-eye), to end this discussion. None the less, the objective already points to the movie design, but the subjective is up in the air like you said. And in a factual debate, the subjective has no sway on objectively superior points.

 Elvenking of the Woodland Realm  00:45, August 2, 2015 (UTC)