If he had the ring, Vader's spirit would be easily crushed. If Sauron didn't, it would be harder, but I think the will of an angel could daunt the will of the Sith. It was said that none, not even Aragorn, could withstand Sauron face-to-face.
AvocadoSandpaper wrote:
No-one ever implied that Vader was a threat to Arada only that he was in a fight with Sauron and some people said as a result the Empire was in a fight with Mordor. Eru should be happy if Vader and the empire attacked Mordor. Besides I don't think Eru would intervene even if the empire wanted to conquer arda because he didn't when sauron did.
Are you aware of the Death Star? Conquering Arda isn't a threat to Arda. The planet remains. The Death Star, however, is. If it's the armies of Sauron and Vader at peak height, Sauron wins if they plan to use the Death Star. If they don't plan on that.. It's only so many individual fights, against Stormtroopers.. And Sauron has the Might of the Numenoreans on his side. Even the Valar feared that host. Pitting it against a bunch of accuracy-challenged grunts fighting on foreign terrain? Well, we're looking at Endor Part Two.
Vader is one of the most powerful sigh lords to ever live, he has immense skill in the force and with a lightsaber. Only a few kinds of metal can withstand being hit with lightsabers, and we already know what Sauron’s mace is made out of, Vader can just slice through it. And if we want to say he can’t, then Vader could use the force to overwhelm Sauron, Sauron is a skilled manipulator and has lotr magic, but the force has physical applications, Vader will take some hard hits but each one will only increase his fury, thereby making him more powerful (because the dark side is fueled by pain and anger). And if people want to say “well Sauron has armies”, kids, Vader has armies large enough to take over middle earth in a day, not to mention lasers. Laser > arrows. As for his “spirit being crushed by the ring” uhhh, this isn’t a meager man or padawan, this is Darth Vader, lord of the sith, one of his favorite pastimes is crushing the will to live in Jedi and making them beg for death, this is the guy who fell into a river of lava and lived, a fancy ring isn’t going to sway him.
Sauron will use the ring to attempt to sway Vader, he may feel fear, but it will not overwhelm him. Let’s keep in mind Sauron was defeated by a mere mortal, Vader is the damned chosen one, the only sith more powerful than he was Palpatine himself. Sauron would have an advantage in size, but Vader has fought foes such as this before, he would slice through saurons defenses with his lightsaber, if that didn’t work and he started taking too many hits, his rage would only fuel his power in the dark side, using force augmentation would he gain manuferability, he likely wouldn’t be able to simply pick Sauron up but he would at least sling objects the size of boulders at him. That being said, Sauron is not a user of the force, force users use the force to make “defenses” against other force users, which is why we don’t see Jedi or with taking each other’s lightsabers unless one extremely outclasses another. Vader can simply rip Sauron’s mace from his grasp, then send him flying with the force, leaping up and driving his saber into his chest.
Darth Vader has wiped out entire armies single handedly, and taken on dozens of Jedi at once, a medieval sorcerer with a fancy ring would not triumph in this conflict.
Elendil and Isildur’s spirtis weren’t “crushed with Sauron’s eyes” the sith who tortured Jedi to death, ripping their spirits out, slaughters civilizations, and brought down the Jedi order, is not some weak minded human. At best in this situation, Sauron is like one of the Dathomir witches, however more powerful. Idk why everyone is making him out to be Abeloth or something.
But honestly, for this to be a totally fair comparison, we should really be comparing the two true dark lords, Darth Sideous and Sauron. Just putting that out there.
I think Palpatine would beat Sauron, but Sauron would beat Vader.
Sauron literally helped to make the world. Vader has weaponized parlor tricks. You say Vader is no meager man. That is wrong. Vader is a man. He is human. That was one of the major points about his redemption - Despite his atrocities, he is human. The same cannot be said about Sauron. Sauron is not human. If we're comparing peak strength, then we're comparing Sauron before he lost much of his strength. Either Sauron before the Music Began, or Sauron just before departing to take Aman. If it's before the Music Began, he still has his full strength as one of the Ainur. If we allow others to intervene in the fight, he would probably have support of all the other Ainur, perhaps even Eru Iluvatar. If we don't, then it is a literal immortal against a man. The Force is not enough to win here. Melko raised mountains out of spite. Sauron may be the lesser, but he is immortal. He cannot be slain by Vader. His body is a costume. Even if Vader could destroy it, Sauron could simply reform. Or not take a body at all and simply cause Vader to join his side. Vader has been shown to not have much in the way of integrity. He repeatedly betrays all that he holds dear. Faced with an immortal, an Eternal Power, he stands no chance.
You say that this is an unfair contest because we are comparing a Big Bad with the Dragon. That's false. Sauron was never the Big Bad. Even in the Third Age, he was still a pawn. Still a lieutenant. Sure, he may be working towards his own aims now. Except he does so under the influence of Melko, who resides in the Void, projecting his own desires upon the World.|
It matters not that Vader could duke it out with Sauron. Sauron is eternal. If we compare peak powers, then we must compare Sauron before the Dawn of the World with Vader. If we compare Sauron after the Sinking of Andor to Vader.. That's Sauron almost at his weakest. Are we going to compare him to Vader, crippled and dying, upon Mustafar? No, that's closer to Sauron in the very early Third Age, when he has not reformed. Let's compare Sauron of the Third Age to the young Vader, who struggled so much with his emotions. That child who lost an arm to a rebel Jedi.
Alternatively, we can compare Vader at his peak, during the Glory of the Empire as you describe, to Mairon, an uncorrupted Ainu. Vader is a human, however mighty. Sauron will destroy him. Mairon can assume any form he desires. Or no form at all, and simply destroy him with his elemental wrath.
Ainur is a collective term for Valar and Maiar, I believe.
Ignore that then!
I'm not completely sure on that point, if someone knows for certain, could they verify it?