High King Ithilion wrote: Hot take: Fingolfin. More or less every time we see Sauron enter physical battle, he loses. It's clear that he's not a fighter. He fell to Huan, fled before Eonwe, and only fought Gil-galad and Elendil when there was no other way out--and even then they slew him, though they died in the process. The greatest Noldorin warrior of all time could very likely take Sauron in a straight duel. It's in treachery, manipulation, and deception where Sauron truly excels.
I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, but bear in mind that each of those examples is something of a special case. As Xerped mentioned, Sauron had fate against him when he fought Huan, Eonwe was a maia with, and when he fought Elendil and Gil-galad he was crippled from his surprise swim (not to mention them double teaming him.)
When Fingolfin fought and wounded Morgoth, Morgoth had already lost so much of his power that his might was but a shadow of what it had been before. I don't think Fingolfin would have found victory against Sauron at his prime as easily as you presume. Even in the third age, without his Ring, crippled Sauron was more powerful than Gandalf, who was a maia in possession of the most powerful of the elven rings.
That's true (though afaik Sauron wasn't super limited by his drowning in the fall of Numenor). But it's still telling how much he seems to lose in fights. The only time we see him win is when he dueled Finrod, and even then it was a battle of spellcraft and not a physical duel.
Morgoth had lost a lot of his latent power, and Sauron was greatest at the end of the Second Age. But let us not forget that at that same time he was defeated by Gil-galad and Elendil. So while Sauron would surely be a strong foe and it would be a hard-fought battle, there's a strong chance Fingolfin would triumph, almost certainly against Third Age Sauron and potentially against Second Age as well.
Fingolfin would win, but as others mentioned, your listed cases are exceptional. Huan had the power of prophecy on his side. Eonwe is literally the 'mightiest in arms' of anyone, and as such has a guaranteed pass to win duels.. The reason Sauron fled instead of returning to Numenor is shame. He has done bad things, and he sees that they are bad. He doesn't want to have to confront Manwe and receive judgment. Gil-galad/Elendil was after Sauron had begun to fall. He had invested power and energy into his servants, and had thus lost it. Sauron at the start of the First Age would probably be quite a bit stronger than he was in the fight against GG/E. Fingolfin Fresh From Valinor would easily beat Sauron though, regardless of that. Fingolfin is a fucking badass.
Recneps wrote: Fingolfin would win, but as others mentioned, your listed cases are exceptional. Huan had the power of prophecy on his side. Eonwe is literally the 'mightiest in arms' of anyone, and as such has a guaranteed pass to win duels.. The reason Sauron fled instead of returning to Numenor is shame. He has done bad things, and he sees that they are bad. He doesn't want to have to confront Manwe and receive judgment. Gil-galad/Elendil was after Sauron had begun to fall. He had invested power and energy into his servants, and had thus lost it. Sauron at the start of the First Age would probably be quite a bit stronger than he was in the fight against GG/E. Fingolfin Fresh From Valinor would easily beat Sauron though, regardless of that. Fingolfin is a fucking badass.
Excuse Ithilion’s bias, we all know that any user with an elf profile picture secretly has a crush on Fingolfin.
Hot take: Fingolfin. More or less every time we see Sauron enter physical battle, he loses. It's clear that he's not a fighter. He fell to Huan, fled before Eonwe, and only fought Gil-galad and Elendil when there was no other way out--and even then they slew him, though they died in the process. The greatest Noldorin warrior of all time could very likely take Sauron in a straight duel. It's in treachery, manipulation, and deception where Sauron truly excels.
Do you think Fingolfin would beat Feanor High King Ithilion?
He would definitely beat Gothmog. If Ecthelion can do it, Fingolfin can.
I don't think Sauron even in his prime was even a fraction of strength of even weakened Morgoth, Maiar are strong but Valar are on another level altogether, if Fingolfin could confront Morgoth, the greatest of Valar, even as a shadow of his former self he would certainly be able to at least stand toe to toe with Sauron, if not outright defeat him, Sauron was powerful, no denying that, and was bestowed with a portion of Morgoth's power making him head and shoulders above all other Maiar, but by the third age he was in extremely weakened state given that he put majority of his power into the ring that he eventually lost. As far as Gandalf is concerned it is worth remembering that he was heavily restricted in what he could do when he was sent to Middle Earth, the Istari were not supposed to confront Sauron directly, had they been able to do so i have no doubt that the five of them could easily overpower Sauron even in his prime, but it was decided that people of Middle Earth should be allowed to forge their own future and Istari should be just guides and councilors. So i would say Fingolfin could definitely defeat Sauron in third age, though considering his life force was bound to the ring it is questionable whether or not he could kill him. Sauron in his prime may be a bit harder fight and could probably go either way, the ring was not just a container for Sauron's power, it was an amplifyer, Sauron with the ring was much more powerful then he ever was before he created it, so that fight could go either way.
Sure, Valar are on a different strength level than Maiar, but Maiar too are on a different strength level than Eldar, and yet, Fingolfin was very nearly able to overcome two degrees of separation, which leads to the conclusion that, on a "video game power scale," ruling hypothetical combats based on racial status alone is not reliable. At least not in every case.
I believe that Sauron was outright stated to be the most powerful of the Maiar.
Perhaps 1st age Fingolfin could take out 3rd age Sauron, but 1st age Sauron could certainly take out 3rd age Fingolfin, who was, of course, nothing more than a skeleton at the time. We really have to compare them each at the same time.
Also @Ithilion, Sauron's original physical body was killed on Numenor, I'd imagine that would handicap him pretty badly.
Eonwë or Melian are probably more powerful but ólorin is stated to be the wisest
Hot take: Fingolfin. More or less every time we see Sauron enter physical battle, he loses. It's clear that he's not a fighter. He fell to Huan, fled before Eonwe, and only fought Gil-galad and Elendil when there was no other way out--and even then they slew him, though they died in the process. The greatest Noldorin warrior of all time could very likely take Sauron in a straight duel. It's in treachery, manipulation, and deception where Sauron truly excels.
Do you think Fingolfin would beat Feanor High King Ithilion?
Yep. Feanor is a genius and a charismatic, highly skilled craftsman. But he's not a warrior like Fingolfin.
I just want to clarify for the group: Sauron is explicitly at his strongest during the Second Age, and at that point he was of equal or higher strength to Morgoth at the end of the First.