All posts by Jurassic Sean
I agree that the Kimen Kah thing doesn't really line up with the current lore. That's why I discuss it in the suggestion and these comments. But I will say it isn't excluded. It says they
"completely burned all that remained of the original Taurethrim civilization, and slaughtered the entire population of the city."
To me that leaves the possibilty of other people who weren't from the city, but from the kingdom. The faction as I've suggested doesn't really count as part of the original civilization as there isn't enough there to be one, and as they are basically meant to be the remnants of the military I think it could still fit within that definition. I do think if I'd suggested a full subfaction with built structures and large settlements I'd agree with you, but as it stands it's more liike the lore concerning the Dunedain and Arnor, where the latter was completely wiped out, yet we still have the former.
And there isn't a Mumakah subfaction suggested, as I felt that went against the lore too much, rather ironically.
I'd like to respectfully point out that Kimen Kâh was a new city-state with Morwaith vassals, and probably only had the city and a few farms around it.
Personally, my belief is that when it comes time for a new faction, (after bugs are fixed and what i presume will be a necessary break after this gigantic update) that the Beorning's are probably the most likely faction to come, considering the addition of bee's and honey.
I'd love to hear the rest of the forums thoughts on the matter! :)
I'd rather like see all factions overhauled, perhaps even with more unique and fleshed-out subfactions.
They already spawn in Erebor, and some old ruins of theirs spawn in both the misty and grey mountains. Dwarves as a whole haven't been touched for quite a while so I imagine eventually they will get some new structures - and there are supposed to be some Dwarves remaining in the grey mountains.
Huh, never noticed that... interesting to think what their lives would look like.
Don’t Pennith Gelin troops use Gondor weapons? Or am I wrong? I see no need for new crafting tables. New structure however like stables for Dol Amroth would be good.
It could theoretically happen when everything else and more important is added. I personally wish for it too.
We have absolutely no way of knowing how many were left behind unless a member of the mod team says so.
Seeing that the Forest people migrated from it due to floodings that damaged their population, I am fairly sure few would have stayed there, if any.
In the suggestion, I am disscussing the natives who were left behind. There is no need for them to have resettled as they could just conquer the people who already lived there and then just take tribute and such. The more standard Taurethrim in the zone I specify are Taurethim-ized natives, as in they are natives who have become more like the Taurethrim over time, not neccessarily Taurethrim themselves.
Those who were left behind would be no more than a few families, like the Hobbits in the Gladden Fields.
I fail to see how that proves they would have died out there if there are still Taurethrim right on the edges of the jungle.
The most important point was, imo, that their ancestors migrated from it. Meaning they didn't or couldn't stay there. The forest people then split off into the pre-Taurethrim and Limwaith. The Limwaith went to the eastern swamplands, living the traditional way of life of the Forest People. The pre-Taurethrim, meanwhile, went to the jungles, assimilated/drove off the inhabitants, and completely changed their culture and way of life. At some point they came into contact with the Númenóreans, who taught them metalwork and masonry. Therefore, when the Taurethrim expanded their empire and rediscovered Chunha, I think they are not likely to have resettled it, because the terrain was fit fore a lifestyle similar to that of the Limwaith, who were looked down upon by the Taurethrim.
The Taurethrim in the game are Morwaith who killed the old Taurethrim
Nonetheless they are also called Taurethrim, even if they gave this name to themselves. I'd like to point out that prior to the revenge of the Morwaith, the Taurethrim fought among themselves. If they ever resettled Chunha (after migrating from it due to flooding), they still would have died out, because the only Taurethrin city evading Morwaith attacks was Mûmakâh, due to its location in the deep jungle.
The first one I agree might be a stretch. I mention the problem in the suggestion. The second is pretty vague and definitely leaves room for people to be left behind.
I meant to prove that the Taurethrim still know that they came from Chunha. And a few families could have stayed behind. Maybe the empire resettled Chunha and its inhabitants were killed by the Morwaith. In any case, there would be no Taurethrim there now.
The Kimen Kah thing I suggested because basically I really liked the idea and ultimately I think it's fairly easy to believe that a few of them got away or weren't in the city at the time or perhaps fled to the forest and then returned etc. As for Chunha, I think it's actually easier to believe that some were left behind than all of them got away as flooding could easily cut people off. I agree that the modern Taurethrim probably wouldn't know the lore facts about Chunha, but I think if the Taurethrim were there when they fell, which I think is a fair assumption, the Morwaith would have taken it whereas the Limwaith getting there is far harder to believe.
There are arguments against this statement:
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These creatures had wiped out any Morwaith tribes living in the lands that became known as Perdorogwaith, and by the time of Kimen Kâh they were beginning to raid further and further westwards. The attacks of these Grey Demons intensified over the next few years, until finally, in SA 2161, the mighty city fell to the Half-Trolls. The Half-Trolls completely burned all that remained of the original Taurethrim civilization, and slaughtered the entire population of the city. It is for this reason that the site became called Kimen Kâh - the City of the Dead. The fall of Kimen Kâh marked the end of Taurethrim attempts to settle the Far Harad Forest, as well as the end of the pureblooded Taurethrim. The last branch of the original Taurethrim Empire was completely destroyed, and with the city was lost grievous amounts of artifacts and texts from the old Empire. The river at which Kimen Kâh was built turned red with blood during the massacre, and so forever after it became known as the River of Blood, the Seregduin. | ” |
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–The Lost Chronicles of Middle-earth | ||
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–Waypoints | ||
Very nice! I absolutely love the idea of the Kimen Kah and Mumakah subfactions, but they probably wouldn't make much sense as you said. About the Chunha subfaction though, the new Taurethrim we see in-game are distant relatives to the original Taurethrim who only call themselves Taurethrim. As such, they probably wouldn't know that the original Taurethrim once lived in Chunha during the Second Age (though it is possible). In the case that they don't, it would make much more sense to be a Limwaith subfaction when that faction is added in the far future like you said, and for there to be no Chunha Taurethrim NPCs and just the Chunha Native NPCs.
Other than that, fantastic suggestion!
Both of these places are devoid of Taurethrim per lore, and they know they migrated/fled from Chunha because of floodings.
There was no plate armor in Middle-earth.
The primary source (about 98.7%) for this mod is the writings of Tolkien. Also, how would the dragon become a prominent motive in their culture?
I am wholly against the existence of gondorian and rohirric wraiths.
but still cannot agree that big cats are the most fitting. No, how you've said, big cats are so ridiculous to ride
I'm not agreeing to riding big cats, but I want to ask why it's so outlandish. Wargs are just big wolves and orcs ride them all the time, why would riding a big cat be any different?
Again, not saying I agree with it. Just want to know.
There are a couple of factors involved:
- Wargs are probably descendants of the Werewolves of Beleriand, being wolves with fell spirits and therefore more intelligent. Also, there are no big cats in the north.
- Most big cats, except lions, hunt alone, making it very hard to reliably tame them or get them to accept you, making riding impossible.
Jurassic Sean wrote:
I suppose Taurethrim shall mount oliphaunts in some far future update...
but still cannot agree that big cats are the most fitting. No, how you've said, big cats are so ridiculous to ride
The mûmakil are holy animals to them, so that would be very unlikely. Also, pards are leopards.
No. The medieval bestiaries said that. The hunting behavior described fits a leopard perfectly.
Great suggestion and textures! Although I only remember the House of the Mole (who could have been half-sindarin/avarin) using battleaxes among the Noldor, but it wouldn't hurt to keep them, being used rarely by the Exiles.
I suppose Taurethrim shall mount oliphaunts in some far future update...
but still cannot agree that big cats are the most fitting. No, how you've said, big cats are so ridiculous to ride
The mûmakil are holy animals to them, so that would be very unlikely. Also, pards are leopards.
This seems like a good suggestion exept for one thing: logic. How does dwarven steel which is a very strong material in middle earth bend easily so you can have a bow that works? If somene will be kind enough to explain this it would have 1 more supporter. (I myself hate dwarves being able to forge iron to something much stronger but can make bows)
It actually wouldn't be unreasonable. Real medieval swords (or at least the highest quality ones) were tempered in such a way as to be akin to a leaf spring, otherwise they'd bend and snap after rough usage--and on a battlefield, any usage is going to be pretty rough. This is real-life, human smithing techniques, before the Bessemer Process enabled the creation of modern steels!
Some later crossbows actually did use spring steel arms; this is why they're so incredibly powerful for their size, and it's also why they often used winches to wind back the bowstring since the draw weight would be at least 600 pounds, and potentially up to twice that.
Therefore, I don't think it would be unreasonable for Dwarves--implicitly stated to be the greatest smiths and craftsmen in Middle Earth outside of the Noldor (who don't count due to having literally forever to practice)--to be able to produce some variation of spring steel bow, nor would it be silly for them to have the strength to wield them. Naturally, they'd have higher power than contemporary bows, or even hypothetical horn bows, but in exchange would take a longer time to fully draw.
Well, Númenór had steelbows.