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  • Over time, I have noticed a few things in the mod that go against the lore. While this is a game and that cannot be helped in some cases (cough cough, Mallorn ent), there are several improvements I would like to suggest.

    1. Fires of Orthanc: In the lore, Isengard and Mordor both used bombs in battle. Angmar did not. Related to this, I would like to suggest Orc Fire. This is what happens when a Firebomb is shot off. This fire burns for a long time, spreads really fast, and is an ugly red. It can burn forever on scorched stone. This represents the trenches of fire the Orcs dug at the Siege of Minas Tirith.

    2. Warg Bombardiers: Just no. Please no. I beg you. Also,as many people say, the mod's wargs look weird.

    3. Ered Luin Height: In the books, the Blue Mountains were much lower than the Misty Mountains. Therefore, I feel the "Blue Mountains" biome should only be found as isolated peaks, surrounded by foothills. In the north, Ered Luin should run in twin ridges.

    4. In The Hobbit, the Wood-Elves are stated as having mainly lived on the edge of the woods, and to often go hunting in the plains northwest of Laketown. As such, the Woodland Realm biome's location should be shifted eastward, and companies of Wood-Elves should occasionally be found in that area of Wilderland.

    5. In FOTR, the Galadhrim Warriors wore "grey mail and white capes." The armor should be changed to have grey chainmail on the arms and lower belly, and they should wear silver-white capes. 

    6. On the subjest of capes, many more NPCs should wear them, not just leaders and rangers. High Elven warriors should wear blue, Galadhrim warriors white, and Wood-elven warriors brown. The Rohrirrim should wear green cloaks, and Galadhrim civilians grey. Haradrim should wear red.

    7. The Uruk equipment needs changing from movie style to book style. The helmets should have a white elven s-rune on them, and the swords should be broad-bladed stabbing swords, as in the book. Uruks also never used crossbows, they used longbows. The current mod version of the Uruks is like that of the movie, and is therefore as uncanon as the golden Mirkwood armor that is oft-suggested. Also, the Orcs of Mordor  should use actual curved scimitars, not the thin versions of the movie Uruk swords used now.

    8. Barrow blades should have gold hilts, like the book.

    9. The Haradrim of the books wore gold scale armor with golden gorgets, with red robes and capes. They also had round, spiked yellow and black shields, and red war-paint. Finally, they are darker-skinned then they are in the mod.

    10. Rangers of Ithilien should sometimes use iron pikes in battle, as in TTT.

    11. I don't know how many times this will be stated. Rangers of the North wear dark GREY cloaks over chainmail and helmets. They ride horses and use swords, Iron pikes, and bows in battle. They also ride horses.

    12. Dunlending armor should be much lighter-they are stated as having little metal armor to use. Some also rode horses.

    13. Wood-Elven Strength: In the Unfinished Tales, Wood-Elves are stated as having very low-powered armor. Therefore, I suggest that the texture of the Wood-Elven armor should change to leafmaille with brown and green cloth interspersed. The helmet can stay the same, but maybe with leather components. It would be crafted like the old Rohan armor, but with Elven Steel. The armor's durability and defense should also be lowered. This makes playing as the Wood-Elves more about ambushing and less about tanking.

    Related to that is a thought I had about factions. Right now, armor and weapons are on a greyscale, from mithril down to leather. But what if there were reasons for wearing different armor and using different weapons? An example is how TATW DAC has their Lothlorien units have higher defense power but less attacking power than the Wood-Elves. Another DAC example is the three Wildmen factions-Anduin, Enedwaith, and Dunland (the first two are good candidates for addition to the mod). In this system, Enedwaith are light-armored, sneaky buggers with excellent javelins, Dunlendings are heavy-hitting, (relatively) heavily armored guys, and Anduin are an all-round faction with good archers and cavalry. Now, obviously Minecraft isn't much like Medieval 2 Total War, but the factions should have different reasons to gain alignment with other than the strength of their armor or units. Implementing this system would help many of the "clone" factions (the three Elves, the Dwarves plus the upcoming Orocarni, and others I can't think of) be unique.

    As a final note, I made another lore-based suggestion on the Feedback board, entitled Tower Guard OP-ness. You should check that out as well, as it ties into Lore-based changes.

    Thank you for reading my (long-winded) suggestion. As always, comments, Kudos, and constructive critiscism are welcome. Happy New Year,

    SwordGondolin High King Ithilion (Chat moderator)(Ni celeb ithil) 03:38, January 1, 2016 (UTC)

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    • totally agree to every point. If I could Kudos I would give 5.

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    • To kudos you need an account. You seem like a good user to have on our wiki. You should join! :)

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    • A thing that would fit with second to last point well would be after a certain amount of time your alignment begins to turn to 0, which could prevent you from gaining a large amount of alignment with a faction, then taking the weapons it is best with and never aiding that faction again.

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    • I don't think I get what you mean. Could you elaborate?

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    • what he means is your fame and reputation fades, and you loose alignment if you stop doing things like killing orcs or doing quests. let's say you have 1000 alignment with Rohan. You stop killing uruks, dunlending, or mordor orcs and do something else. Your "Fame" In Rohan and your good reputation fades with time until you resume getting back alignment

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    • I see. I agree it should fade, but very slowly.

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    • If it does fade it should not go under 10 alignments. To get below that you will need to kill the factions allies or that faction's npc

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    • Yes, because the old folk and loremasters will remember you for a long time. "Thorongil" was probably still remembered in Gondor when Aragorn returned.

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    • Although I am generally not happy with combinations of less related suggestions ... these are just all okay to me. Big thumbs up.

      On your additional thought: I'd like to point to my suggestion thread regarding 'armor weight and movement speed'. If that would be implemented, combining armor types can be interesting to achieve optimal trade-off between weight, protection, durability and agility. I also think my suggestion on character traits may offer a way to get more specialized (sub-)factions and their military ... provided such traits can be implemented to work for npc units as well (as 'faction traits' of course).

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    • I must admit, I am guilty of many unrelated suggestion clusters :P

      I really liked your armor weight suggestion, and I think it could tie in perfectly with a way to get different advantages from certain armors. Another thing that ties in is my armor-piercing weapons suggestion. That would make using specific armor-piercing weapons desireable. Perhaps some armor could be immune to armor-piercing attacks. These could all help make armor and weapons have more dimentions then strength.

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    • I added some new parts.

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    • A big fat kudo coming ur way dear sir

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:
      I added some new parts.

      Agree with all of them, assuming the lore references are correct.

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    • Those are great ideas, and I agree with all of them!

      For lore-based Changes, I want to add one point: Gundabad Uruk should never exist!

      My solutions of the faction and the Misty Mountains are (all of following biomes will still generate Orcs of the Misty Mountains:

      • Gundabad should align with Mordor like Angmar and Dol Guldur.
      • The Misty Mountains should be divided into several biomes.
        • Add Moria biome, and it generates Black Uruks of Mordor.
        • Add Mount Gram biome. Mount Gram and its mountain range which between Angmar and Ettenmoor generates mountain trolls.
        • The south part of Misty Mountains generates Uruk-hai of Saruman.
      • Add bats for the faction, which make the sky gloomy and remove negative effects on nearby Orcs in daytime.
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    • I agree with you in many points, but I think that the white hand on uruks helm looks better than the white S. Another point I disagree is about mirkwood elves: minecraft is a sandbox game, where the heavily armored wins so make them more stealth will only turn them weak, expecially players of this faction.

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    • Sentinel96 wrote:
      I agree with you in many points, but I think that the white hand on uruks helm looks better than the white S. Another point I disagree is about mirkwood elves: minecraft is a sandbox game, where the heavily armored wins so make them more stealth will only turn them weak, expecially players of this faction.

      If the mod would include armor weight affecting unit movement speed and traits affecting agility (chance to dodge attacks), this reasoning no longer holds. :D

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    • Wargaz cc wrote:
      Those are great ideas, and I agree with all of them!

      For lore-based Changes, I want to add one point: Gundabad Uruk should never exist!

      My solutions of the faction and the Misty Mountains are (all of following biomes will still generate Orcs of the Misty Mountains:

      • Gundabad should align with Mordor like Angmar and Dol Guldur.
      • The Misty Mountains should be divided into several biomes.
        • Add Moria biome, and it generates Black Uruks of Mordor.
        • Add Mount Gram biome. Mount Gram and its mountain range which between Angmar and Ettenmoor generates mountain trolls.
        • The south part of Misty Mountains generates Uruk-hai of Saruman.
        • The Eastern part generates Dol Guldur Orcs and Olog-hai of Dol Guldur (Mirk-trolls).
      • Add bats for the faction, which make the sky gloomy and remove negative effects on nearby Orcs in daytime.

      I think orc bats would be hard to code. And I assume you mean normal sized bats, not Warner Bro's monstrosities that are bred for war.

      I think Gundabad Uruks should still spwan in your Moria biome (as the Black Uruks), a Gundabad biome (as Bolg's Guard) and the Grey Mountains (as the Hob-Goblins). Also, why would Dol Guldur units spawn in the Misties? That makes no sense.

      Sentinel, I agree with what AlteOgre says about armor speed and traits. Stealth can still be useful in battles. Also, the Wood-Elves really did use weak armor, so it is a canon change.

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    • idk or this is possible but if IT would be great that enemies can see you from larger or shorter distance depending on wich gear you wear eg while wearing strong but heavy dwarven armour they can see you from a longer distance then when you wear weaker but lighter wood elven armour and on wich way you move cause when you are running and jumping they can see you from a large distance while if you are sneaking you can assasinate them (this can enable assasinations XD)

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    • These suggestions are awesome Ithilion applauses again, but as one of the lover of the movie's costumes and armour, drifting away from them to compromise from canon just has me in rags, because I (along with others) would wager that these armours are pretty awesome and aesthetically pleasing. I just really wish there was some way to keep the non canon and implement the canon armours. And also, yes, warg bombers are disgusting and too OP. Nobody wants a childish pleb creeper in Middle Earth, and a siege isn't really a siege anymore if you have a warg bomber; at least not a fun one.

      Wargaz CC: I wholeheartedy agree with Gundabad being sepereated into misty mountain and mount gram subfaction as I in the past have actually suggested this before. Great thinking!

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    • There are some movie armors that we should keep. The Uruk-Hai helmet, for instance. But the Wood-Elven and Haradrim armor doesn't even look like the movies and would look better if changed. The Galadhrim armor would only require a simple edit to the texture. However, the Uruk-Hai weapons just look wierd, and are utterly contradicting the canon.

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    • Personally, I think Mevans favours Uruk-hai. At first, Uruk-hai can be counted as elite units among the mod. They could have a lighter unit like Uruk scout which what Wood-elf got, and that would be more balance because both sides will have a scout unit. However, they got a non-canon unit called Uruk Berserker which was okay to me because they were from the movies that is the Best of the Best. That was not even close, now they got Uruk Berserker Scimitar which is able to make +8 damage without coldown time, 100% speed. Please don't mention snaga, if you don't go to Uruk's land, you may not even have changes to meet them...

      Seriously? Catfishperson even commented that he think its just a matter of time before Mevans nerfs it (Uruk Berserker Scimitar). I hope that won't take too long...

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    • Wargaz cc wrote:
      Personally, I think Mevans favours Uruk-hai. At first, Uruk-hai can be counted as elite units among the mod. They could have a lighter unit like Uruk scout which what Wood-elf got, and that would be more balance because both sides will have a scout unit. However, they got a non-canon unit called Uruk Berserker which was okay to me because they were from the movies that is the Best of the Best. That was not even close, now they got Uruk Berserker Scimitar which is able to make +8 damage without coldown time, 100% speed. Please don't mention snaga, if you don't go to Uruk's land, you may not even have changes to meet them...

      Seriously? Catfishperson even commented that he think its just a matter of time before Mevans nerfs it (Uruk Berserker Scimitar). I hope that would take too long...

      Uruk-hai scouts would be a good archer unit. Maybe the Uruk-Hai Crossbowmen could be replaced by these? 

      I totally agree that Uruks should be nerfed. The Uruk-Hai of Isengard are stated as being less developed than their Mordor kin. An elf would rek them.

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    • Mevans kudosed the suggestion!!!

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    • Cool!

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    • IMG 1040
      I drew some concept art for the armor changes. Ask if you have any questions.
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    • Perfect but I thinks the spikes on the harad one should be stuppy other then that good and sweet drawing skills

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    • Thanks!

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    • I like what's good

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    • 76.114.205.107 wrote: Mevans kudosed the suggestion!!!

      Well, hen it's bye-bye bombardiers! Three cheers for Mevans!

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    • Aw crap, now we lost ANOTHER strong evil unit. My precious warriors, I will always miss them...

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    • The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote: Aw crap, now we lost ANOTHER strong evil unit. My precious warriors, I will always miss them...

      Not necessarily. Simply kudosing a suggestion does NOT mean all of it will be added.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 20:49, January 16, 2016 (UTC)

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    • But there is a very good chance we have seen the last of our Warg bombardiers (And if not, then I think I need to have a word with Mevans)

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    • I hope not. Warg bombardiers even the balance between good and evil. They should not be removed without something to replace them (such as making trolls and ologs able to destroy blocks.)

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 13:32, January 17, 2016 (UTC)

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    • Who in their right mind would drop a bomb in the middle of an enemy formation? In my opinion, all natutral spawning of Bombardiers should be removed. You guys have ologs, which do psycological damage as well as physical. Both sides need tactics to fight with or against them. It isn't just a matter of charging in the trolls only to get them reckt by arrow fire, you need strategy to use them effectively. Evil was winning the war, as you stated on the Good vs. Evil thread, but through numbers not skill. Also, what advantage does being able to destroy blocks get you? The only thing I can think of is destroying walls, and you can't tell soldiers to drop their payload, and anyway the player can destroy walls by themselves. Anyway, if this mod goes (mainly) by Tolkien lore, why do we have these drooling, slobbering bears running around with a bomb on their back. And another thing! Wargs have a spirit of their own. They aren't docile, mindless creatures, but descendants of Werewolves. If strapping abomb to themselves will kill them, they won't do it!

      Whew...

      That was a rant. 

      Let's try to avoid a flame war (though I realize this probably sounds like the guy who assasinated the Archduke of Austria saying "Let's all keep calm, folks...")

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    • Well said ^

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    • (Remember Helm's Deep in the movies, when the exploded bricks flew all over the Uruk Hai, crushing several hundred? Sure that was the movies, but you can expect no different to have happened in the books.)

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    • Warg Bombarders are just wrong. If they were canon, I would love (as well as fear) them. They are anti-canon and unrealistic and only some evil players even like them. They do not belong.

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    • Why is it that all your suggestions are good, I mean, they're amazing...

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    • One thing, that I feel should be added:

      Galadhrim cloaks should be retextured to be more friendly to the lore, and more aesthetically pleasing. To this end, they should be a more shadowy grey, as stated in the lore, and I believe look something more like the Sentinels of the Woodland Realm from TA:TW(Ithilion, you know of which I speak. I shall try and find an appropriate image for you.)

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    • 76.114.205.107 wrote:
      Mevans kudosed the suggestion!!!
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    • Galadhrim Cloak Ideas

      I said I'd find an image, didn't I? The quality isn't the best, but the game is old.

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    • Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote:
      Galadhrim Cloak Ideas

      I said I'd find an image, didn't I? The quality isn't the best, but the game is old.

      Medieaval II Total War is still awesome...

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    • 707Mithrandir wrote: Warg Bombarders are just wrong. If they were canon, I would love (as well as fear) them. They are anti-canon and unrealistic and only some evil players even like them. They do not belong.

      Well they are literally the balancing point. We'd have to get something pretty good in their place if we want to maintain balance.

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    • The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:

      707Mithrandir wrote: Warg Bombarders are just wrong. If they were canon, I would love (as well as fear) them. They are anti-canon and unrealistic and only some evil players even like them. They do not belong.

      Well they are literally the balancing point. We'd have to get something pretty good in their place if we want to maintain balance.

      Has anyone else noticed that good players complain about all the stuff we have? But we don't complain about the numerous things they have?

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    • But, the thing is, there is no balance in LOTR. Middle-Earth will always be lopsided. Good had better soldiers, armor, and weapons than Orcs. Sure, the Black Guard of Barad-Dur could probably kill a Gondor soldier, but a High elf could probably kill him. The disadvantage of good was a lack of troops, disunity, and reluctance. It is said in The Silmarillion that "orcs unaided could not stand against the Eldar." Sure, most of the greatest Eldar were dead. But the point remains that orcs were weak. How else did the Rohirrim kill 200 orcs with 115 men, and lose only 15? The Easterlings and Haradrim are the balancing point in terms of skill. An Easterling or Haradrim would probably lose to a Gondorian, but it would be a near thing. And they also had superior numbers. The thing is, this is how Tolkien intended it, and, at least in my mind, that beats making the game exactly even.

      To replicate this, all orcs could be debuffed, but also hiring caps on units implemented. For example, you can only hire 15 High Elves, but you can hire 50 Mordor Orcs. Or 20 Gondorians and 40 Haradrim. Evil would still win these battles, but in a lore-accurate way. Making good stronger (and losing the filthy Warg Bombers) isn't that big a deal as it's made out to be.

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    • Well said Mr. Ithilion!

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    • The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:

      707Mithrandir wrote: Warg Bombarders are just wrong, etc.

      Well they are literally the balancing point. We'd have to get something pretty good in their place if we want to maintain balance.

      Uruk Hai Berserkers? Olog Hai? Sappers? Gundabd Uruks?

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    • 707Mithrandir wrote:

      The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:

      707Mithrandir wrote: Warg Bombarders are just wrong, etc.

      Well they are literally the balancing point. We'd have to get something pretty good in their place if we want to maintain balance.

      Uruk Hai Berserkers? Olog Hai? Sappers? Gundabd Uruks?

      Better gear? Ent draughts? Better units per price? Axe-throwers with unlimited throwing axes and the best non-mithril gear in the game, one of which can take out forty Olog-hai? Rohan horses? Far more factions? Tower guards with unlimited spears? Homelands that debuff enemy units by day? Dare I even mention the ore plans for the good biomes?

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 21:44, January 18, 2016 (UTC)

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    • Galvorn?

      Say morgul armor, I dare you! Say it! Say it's an even match for Galvorn armor!

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    • How did I forget Galvorn? Galvorn alone is far better than any armor, any unit evil has.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 21:51, January 18, 2016 (UTC)

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    • That's the point. Good far surpasses evil in terms of weapons, armor, soldiers, and equipment. And it should, too. Because evil's strength was numbers.

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    • Don't forget skills

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    • MrHobit1234 wrote:
      Don't forget skills

      Hehe, skills ... traits?

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    • AlteOgre wrote:

      MrHobit1234 wrote:
      Don't forget skills

      Hehe, skills ... traits?

      I mean good was generaly better trained than evil

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    • High King Ithilion wrote: That's the point. Good far surpasses evil in terms of weapons, armor, soldiers, and equipment. And it should, too. Because evil's strength was numbers.

      Yeah, but do you honestly think that numbers are going to change anything in a minecraft server when faced with OP gear???

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    • The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:

      High King Ithilion wrote: That's the point. Good far surpasses evil in terms of weapons, armor, soldiers, and equipment. And it should, too. Because evil's strength was numbers.

      Yeah, but do you honestly think that numbers are going to change anything in a minecraft server when faced with OP gear???

      Yes

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    • Let's keep in mind that evil usually outnumbers good on servers, so, how about no.

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    • How about smilely face? 😈

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    • you had add ranger horses twice.... just sayin

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    • The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:
      Let's keep in mind that evil usually outnumbers good on servers, so, how about no.

      Isn't it the opposite? I see 3 evil players while I see like 15 good players on Dome.

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    • I like most of this, but mounted rangers with pikes would be simply to overpowered.

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    • Speaking of lore-based ranger changes, I think we should greatly reduce ranger spawn rates, it said somwhere in Lotr that there were only a few hundred of them?

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    • Catfishperson wrote: Speaking of lore-based ranger changes, I think we should greatly reduce ranger spawn rates, it said somwhere in Lotr that there were only a few hundred of them?

      Then they would have to be given so op gear because they where able to hold back Gundabad alone from the Shire and Breeland

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    • Okay, they already have so OP gear, as it is 20 rangers could easily hold off a Gundabad invasion, and was Gundabad really focused on captureing the Shire during the time of the War of the Ring?

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    • They don't have OP gear. Their main advantage is their stealth capabilities and their meleé/ranged attacks, neither of which are that effective.

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    • I'd say as somone who plays evil a fair amount that they're both pretty OP.

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    • Catfishperson wrote:
      I like most of this, but mounted rangers with pikes would be simply to overpowered.

      But also lore-friendly.

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    • That's fine, if we nerf the spawn rate, which is also lore-freindly, however. If we just add the mounts and weapons, anywhere that rangers spawn will be a place that no evil player can travel across, Eridoar is ment to be nuetral territitory, not a good stronghold.

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    • No, the Lone-lands and Anduin are neutral territory. Eriador is good-aligned, though frequently contested by evil.

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    • Catfishperson wrote:
      Okay, they already have so OP gear, as it is 20 rangers could easily hold off a Gundabad invasion, and was Gundabad really focused on captureing the Shire during the time of the War of the Ring?

      If it was Mordor and they had Ologs the Rangers would be crushed...

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    • Catfishperson wrote:
      Speaking of lore-based ranger changes, I think we should greatly reduce ranger spawn rates, it said somwhere in Lotr that there were only a few hundred of them?

      ^^This.  Right now they spawn like cockroaches.  In fact, in general, I would say the spawn rate of npc's is too high right now.  Npc's should be pretty rare outside of towns, villages, camps, and the like.

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    • Yes but for lore a few rangers could take on a whole invasion with but with the mod it takes 20 instead of 3

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    • Really?  I've seen Rangers pretty much single-handedly decimate an invasion just through their stealth.

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    • Kawolski VII wrote:
      Really?  I've seen Rangers pretty much single-handedly decimate an invasion just through their stealth.

      But if they're seen they get decimated...

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    • LordDainTheAwsome wrote:

      But if they're seen they get decimated...

      well currently, there's no way to simulate a Ranger's martial prowess besides better armor and increased health.

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    • Kawolski VII wrote:
      LordDainTheAwsome wrote:

      But if they're seen they get decimated...

      well currently, there's no way to simulate a Ranger's martial prowess besides better armor and increased health.

      We really need Ranger swords and bows...

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    • Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      707Mithrandir wrote:

      The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:

      707Mithrandir wrote: Warg Bombarders are just wrong, etc.

      Well they are literally the balancing point. We'd have to get something pretty good in their place if we want to maintain balance.

      Uruk Hai Berserkers? Olog Hai? Sappers? Gundabd Uruks?

      Better gear? Ent draughts? Better units per price? Axe-throwers with unlimited throwing axes and the best non-mithril gear in the game, one of which can take out forty Olog-hai? Rohan horses? Far more factions? Tower guards with unlimited spears? Homelands that debuff enemy units by day? Dare I even mention the ore plans for the good biomes?

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 21:44, January 18, 2016 (UTC)

      Better gear: Evil has three craftable strong armours, but good only has 2 craftable strong armours. One needs to kill a boss for several times to get Gondolinian which is same protection level.

      Ent draughts: The current alignment is incomplete, one can simply use Ent draughts by killing a bunch of Rohirrim, then he just need to kill an Uruk, and he will receive +2 Fangorn alignment, which means he still an Uruk player but able to use Ent draughts.

      Rohan horses: You do know that anyone can ride a Rohan horse, but Gundabad Wargs are equally fast as Rohan horses which only ridable for evil players?

      Far more factions: There are 9 evil factions and 10 good factions. Hobbit is a neutral faction with poor equipment. Two Dwarven factions are mostly same. They have same gears and enemies. Both of them only receive alignment from killing Gundabad Orcs, and they even speak same lines!

      Tower guards with unlimited spears: They are far weaker than Uruk Hai Berserkers, Olog Hai, Sappers or Gundabd Uruks.

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