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  • Good day! This suggestion is one that has been weighing on me for some time, and I believe it could cause controversy. But let me begin!

    In the books, Tolkien doesn't once mention plate armor. Never. This is undebateable. Every armor he mentions is leather, chainmail, scale mail, lamellar, and possibly a Lorica Segmentica (which is still not plate). For more proof, please read these articles by renowned, even-more-nerdy-than-me (I didn't think it was possible either) Tolkien scholar Michael Martinez.

    http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2014/11/19/what-kind-of-armor-did-tolkien-dwarves-use/

    http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/01/06/how-did-tolkien-envision-gondorian-armor/

    (Note that Martinez makes several mistakes, there are more types of armor mentioned, and Imrahil's bracer is definitely metal)


    Now, to list armors in the mod that "breach" the No-Plate rule. I will also list ideas and post artwork for canon replacements.

    1. Gondor: The Gondorian infantry wears bulky plate right now. Of course, this is not what they wore in the book. Here is a quote. "A cloak of dark green over a cloak of fine mail". Also, in the book, it is said that the "Black and Silver" with the White Tree and Crown is unique to them. Therefore, here is my proposal.

    A grey, black, or blue tunic with a silver coat-or-arms shaped shield. This would be blank for NPCs and maybe have customizable colors for players. The helmet is shaped like a movie helmet with a silver star.

    2. Dol Amroth: No, I'm not going to make you remove the Hussar wings. But I do think that they should wear different armor. A blue and silver tunic with a swan emblazoned on it over grey mail would work.

    3. Thought this doesn't strictly break the "No Plate" rule, I wanted to bring this to your attention for the Rangers of the North. A little apart the Rangers sat, silent, in an ordered company, armed with spear and bow and sword. They were clad in cloaks of dark grey, and their hoods were cast now over helm and head. Their horses were strong and of proud bearing, but rough-haired.... There was no gleam of stone or gold, nor any fair thing in all their gear and harness: nor did their riders bear any badge or token, save only that each cloak was pinned upon the left shoulder by a brooch of silver shaped like a rayed star.

    4. The High Elves: The armor of the High Elves has some parts that need converting to chainmail. I suggest something like this , but keeping the Last Alliance helmet, because that helmet is iconic and awesome.

    5. On to the Galadhrim. I like their current armor, but I think it would look better with a grey and gold surcoat over grey mail. The helmet stays the same. Also, there is a book quote for a possible new unit, the Guards of Celeborn. "they were tall and clad in grey mail, and from their shoulders hung long white cloaks."  

    6. The Uruk-Hai of Isengard: These guys I believe would look better wearing leather tunics over crude mail. Pretty simple. And also, they should have a white, angular C-shape (the S-Cirith) on their helmets, and use bows and stabbing swords. They can keep their iconic helmets.

    7. The Uruks of Mordor: These should look similar to the Uruk-Hai, but with the current hemet and less leather. Gundabad Uruks would be similar. I also believe both Uruks should be debuffed to the strength of a Gondorian, which is more canon, but they should also be cheaper. The Black Guard of Barad-Dur if added, could be current Black Uruk strength.

    8. Orcs in general should just wear less uniform, mildly strong looking armor. A few scraps of leather or scale, with a chain shirt, would probably be the most a normal orc could afford.

    9. The Dwarves of Durin's Folk: These had unique weapons and armor. "In battle they wielded heavy two-handed mattocks; but each of them had also a short broad sword at his side and a round shield slung at his back. Their beards were forked and plaited and thrust into their belts. Their caps were of iron and they were shod with iron, and their faces were grim."   Obviously, the weaopns and armor of the Iron Hills dwarves should be changed to match this. The Trimmed armor should instead we changed to Gilded armor-chainmail gilded in the repective metal.

    10. Ered Luin: The Dwarves of Ered Lun should wear similar (but blue) armor, but also terrifying, gilded facemasks. All Dwarves should have moderate fire resistance, and maybe wearing a full set of Belegost Armor (gilded Blue Mountains gear with mask) could give moderate resistance.

    This Artist has done many excellent and canon drawings for the M&B mod The Last Days of the Third Age. I reccommend you check it out.

    Thank you for reading my suggestion! Let me know if I missed any factions. As always, comments, Kudos, and constructive critiscism is welcome.

    SwordGondolin High King Ithilion (Discussions Moderator)(Ni celeb ithil) 15:45, March 21, 2016 (UTC)

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    • No good already has far superior units and gear nerfing some of evils only units that can challenge them would break the balance completely. Also it is highly silly that a centuries old orc bred my sauron him self and  armed with powerful armor is only as strong as a simple farmboy is ridiculous.

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    • Speganomad wrote:
      No good already has far superior units and gear nerfing some of evils only units that can challenge them would break the balance completely. Also it is highly silly that a centuries old orc bred my sauron him self and  armed with powerful armor is only as strong as a simple farmboy is ridiculous.

      Firstly, Good does not have superior units, Black Uruks, Warg bombadiers, and the mighty Olog-hai chew through Elves and Dwarves with ease. Secondly, JRR Tolkien's middle earth is not meant to be "balanced", nor, as it has been previously stated, is this mod. 

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    • Excellent work Ithilion.

      You missed Rohan. The last armour recipe change wasn't really a logical step for fighters spending most of their time on horseback. No plate armour for them either.

      Now, to the point: Would it really make that much difference if we would replace all plate armour with armour constructed of 'mail', by including mail recipes and changing all plate to mail armour types? Could it be acceptable if we'd just assume all these 'plate type' looking armours aren't actually plate, but mail type armours?

      Edit:

      Excellent artwork by Merlkir!

      And ... yeah, chain mail armour would weigh less than plate armour ... but with current gameplay mechanics that doesn't make any difference anyway. :P

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    • Viseric wrote:
      Speganomad wrote:
      No good already has far superior units and gear nerfing some of evils only units that can challenge them would break the balance completely. Also it is highly silly that a centuries old orc bred my sauron him self and  armed with powerful armor is only as strong as a simple farmboy is ridiculous.
      Firstly, Good does not have superior units, Black Uruks, Warg bombadiers, and the mighty Olog-hai chew through Elves and Dwarves with ease. Secondly, JRR Tolkien's middle earth is not meant to be "balanced", nor, as it has been previously stated, is this mod. 

      Of course the mod is made to be balanced. Not to mention almost every base good unit is better than the base evil one. 

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    • @Speg: Any significant change will just require some more re-tuning. I don't see an unsurmountable problem there. Hard, yes, but not unsurmountable.

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    • Tolkien gave evil quantiy while good got quality now how long will it take for you to realise that that is how the LOTR universe works!

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    • Except that is impossible to work within the mod as large armies crash mc... How long will it take you to realise that balance is necessary...

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    • AlteOgre wrote:
      @Speg: Any significant change will just require some more re-tuning. I don't see an unsurmountable problem there. Hard, yes, but not unsurmountable.

      My problem is people dont seem to understand any concept of balance. as Nerfing the uruks is a pointless and unnecessary move that needlessly unbalances the mod.

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    • AlteOgre wrote:
      Excellent work Ithilion.

      ...

      Now, to the point: Would it really make that much difference if we would replace all plate armour with armour constructed of 'mail', by including mail recipes and changing all plate to mail armour types? Could it be acceptable if we'd just assume all these 'plate type' looking armours aren't actually plate, but mail type armours?

      ...

      So, main question should be: What would you propose to concretely change in terms of recipes, items, durability, protection points, etcetera? Your first post doesn't really provide concrete proposals as to help Mevans get a clear view of what the proposed change would encompass and which implications this may have.

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    • @Speg: It may be unwise to expect the same level of awareness and comprehesion of any contributor on any aspect of the game and mod. Let's just assume the mod team and many veteran users do understand this and are capable of taking related arguments into consideration. We can't expect much more I think.

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    • I agree with the change to chain based textures instead of plate base ones but nerfing evil is something that breaks balance as it is impossible to recreate evils numerical advanatage.

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    • Simple make evil spawn more and good spawn less often

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    • Please contain yourself and refrain from continueing on another 'good vs. evil balance' discussion and focus on providing constructive feedback on the first post.

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    • Speganomad wrote:
      Viseric wrote:
      Speganomad wrote:
      No good already has far superior units and gear nerfing some of evils only units that can challenge them would break the balance completely. Also it is highly silly that a centuries old orc bred my sauron him self and  armed with powerful armor is only as strong as a simple farmboy is ridiculous.
      Firstly, Good does not have superior units, Black Uruks, Warg bombadiers, and the mighty Olog-hai chew through Elves and Dwarves with ease. Secondly, JRR Tolkien's middle earth is not meant to be "balanced", nor, as it has been previously stated, is this mod. 
      Of course the mod is made to be balanced. Not to mention almost every base good unit is better than the base evil one. 

      How you can say that and just move on is ridiculous. Test it, right now. Put a black uruk against a high elf or dwarf. Put an olog-hai against any 2 good units. See what happens. I said that the mod wasn't meant to be balanced because the mod creator, and devs have stated before that It's not meant to be balanced, not to mention the painfully obvious dis-balance in favor of evil. I am left still unsure how you can just dismiss that with a wave of your hand. Out of all the people posting on this forum, you are the most consistently wrong person I've ever encountered. It's miraculous, and at this point I'm almost convinced you're a troll, set on pulling our legs and whipping us up into an incredulous frenzy over how absurdly stupid you can be.

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    • AlteOgre wrote:
      Excellent work Ithilion.

      You missed Rohan. The last armour recipe change wasn't really a logical step for fighters spending most of their time on horseback. No plate armour for them either.

      Now, to the point: Would it really make that much difference if we would replace all plate armour with armour constructed of 'mail', by including mail recipes and changing all plate to mail armour types? Could it be acceptable if we'd just assume all these 'plate type' looking armours aren't actually plate, but mail type armours?

      I think it would be better for armor sets to use chainmail in crafting, but as an interim measure plain iron will work.

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    • Speganomad wrote:
      AlteOgre wrote:
      @Speg: Any significant change will just require some more re-tuning. I don't see an unsurmountable problem there. Hard, yes, but not unsurmountable.
      My problem is people dont seem to understand any concept of balance. as Nerfing the uruks is a pointless and unnecessary move that needlessly unbalances the mod.

      Nerfing the Uruks is a canon and sensible move that will make the mod more like the books, while still keeping balance because the uruks will be far cheaper. That is an effective balancing tool. "it won't help because there is still a hiring cap", you will say. But with cheaper orcs, more bad players will be able to afford armies. And severs can adapt to a lack of balance- for example, good players could have a hiring cap of 20 soldiers, while bad players could hire up to 40. Finally, evil men can be buffed to provide more balance.

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    • AlteOgre wrote:
      AlteOgre wrote:
      Excellent work Ithilion.

      ...

      Now, to the point: Would it really make that much difference if we would replace all plate armour with armour constructed of 'mail', by including mail recipes and changing all plate to mail armour types? Could it be acceptable if we'd just assume all these 'plate type' looking armours aren't actually plate, but mail type armours?

      ...

      So, main question should be: What would you propose to concretely change in terms of recipes, items, durability, protection points, etcetera? Your first post doesn't really provide concrete proposals as to help Mevans get a clear view of what the proposed change would encompass and which implications this may have.

      Well, armor could be made of chainmail, which would be crafted from iron nuggets. This would make armor cheaper. Durability and strength-wise, I think it is ok to keep the same, besides maybe some of the Uruk or Orc armors.

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    • Excellent, this is a topic which has long needed to be addressed. You are most correct in all the statements above and I agree, that it is clear that mail was the most commonly used variant of Armour.

      Also it should be noted, that this has already been done quite successfuly with Armours, such as Rohirric Armour, Near Harad Armour.

      However, we must also discuss wether we wish to eradicate Plate Armour as such, or wether certain Factions should continue to make use of it.

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    • That feel when you dont understand why plate armor is so bothersome

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:
      AlteOgre wrote:
      AlteOgre wrote:
      Excellent work Ithilion.

      ...

      Now, to the point: Would it really make that much difference if we would replace all plate armour with armour constructed of 'mail', by including mail recipes and changing all plate to mail armour types? Could it be acceptable if we'd just assume all these 'plate type' looking armours aren't actually plate, but mail type armours?

      ...

      So, main question should be: What would you propose to concretely change in terms of recipes, items, durability, protection points, etcetera? Your first post doesn't really provide concrete proposals as to help Mevans get a clear view of what the proposed change would encompass and which implications this may have.

      Well, armor could be made of chainmail, which would be crafted from iron nuggets. This would make armor cheaper. Durability and strength-wise, I think it is ok to keep the same, besides maybe some of the Uruk or Orc armors.

      For our roleplay survival server I did some research and found a realistic and fair recipe for chainmail would almost use as much iron as full iron plate armour: ca. 83% iron ingots vs. ca. 17% iron bars. For that recipe, realistic weights and material consumption, durability, enchantability and weight were taken into account, and armour weight was a significant factor in the value of armour to MC players. Without armour weight, the total iron consumption should be lowered, but by far not to a level of 1 nugget per recipe slot ... which would be exaggeratingly cheap. Instead, I'd use 50% iron ingots and 50% iron bars, or a dedicated recipe for chain mail, using 6 ingots for 10 chain mail items. (With, realistic, armour weight taken into account, that would be 9 ingots for 10 chain mail items.)

      For a fair comparison between chain mail and plate armour, I'd prefer some distinction between the 'piercing resistance', which is considerably higher for plate than for chain mail armour, and between 'bulguoning resistance', which is lower for plate armour than for thicker, more shock absorbent materials. If ever Mevans would want to add more depth to combat strategy and choice of armour and weapons, those could offer interesting additions. Example: Arrows, daggers and spears will be most effective against chain mail and warhammers would be most effective against plate armour. This would require to add several attributes to both weapons and armour ... which would be cool, but let's wait proposing that as long as other options are still left unanswered.

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    • chain mail could be crafted with iron rings, crafted like gold rings but with iron nuggets instead of gold.

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    • That would be good, it would then be 8/9 of the normal cost.

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    • AlteOgre wrote:
      High King Ithilion wrote:
      AlteOgre wrote:
      AlteOgre wrote:
      Excellent work Ithilion.

      ...

      Now, to the point: Would it really make that much difference if we would replace all plate armour with armour constructed of 'mail', by including mail recipes and changing all plate to mail armour types? Could it be acceptable if we'd just assume all these 'plate type' looking armours aren't actually plate, but mail type armours?

      ...

      So, main question should be: What would you propose to concretely change in terms of recipes, items, durability, protection points, etcetera? Your first post doesn't really provide concrete proposals as to help Mevans get a clear view of what the proposed change would encompass and which implications this may have.

      Well, armor could be made of chainmail, which would be crafted from iron nuggets. This would make armor cheaper. Durability and strength-wise, I think it is ok to keep the same, besides maybe some of the Uruk or Orc armors.
      For our roleplay survival server I did some research and found a realistic and fair recipe for chainmail would almost use as much iron as full iron plate armour: ca. 83% iron ingots vs. ca. 17% iron bars. For that recipe, realistic weights and material consumption, durability, enchantability and weight were taken into account, and armour weight was a significant factor in the value of armour to MC players. Without armour weight, the total iron consumption should be lowered, but by far not to a level of 1 nugget per recipe slot ... which would be exaggeratingly cheap. Instead, I'd use 50% iron ingots and 50% iron bars, or a dedicated recipe for chain mail, using 6 ingots for 10 chain mail items. (With, realistic, armour weight taken into account, that would be 9 ingots for 10 chain mail items.)

      For a fair comparison between chain mail and plate armour, I'd prefer some distinction between the 'piercing resistance', which is considerably higher for plate than for chain mail armour, and between 'bulguoning resistance', which is lower for plate armour than for thicker, more shock absorbent materials. If ever Mevans would want to add more depth to combat strategy and choice of armour and weapons, those could offer interesting additions. Example: Arrows, daggers and spears will be most effective against chain mail and warhammers would be most effective against plate armour. This would require to add several attributes to both weapons and armour ... which would be cool, but let's wait proposing that as long as other options are still left unanswered.

      This could work in conjunction with weapons that have a chance to ignore armor due to blugeoning force, like axes, clubs, maces, ect.

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    • 99.232.231.155 wrote:
      That feel when you dont understand why plate armor is so bothersome

      Well, it is never mentoned in the book. Tolkien´s people dont use plate. 

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    • Hmmm I havent read All comments but its right that the Armours are to simple or "too many plate armour".

      Leather,Wool and Chainmail were a big part of Armours in the medival time and in the LotR universe too,but I think the plate Armour is good for somenfactions for example the Dwarves.The Dwarves are exellent smiths and they have many recourses. But it is known that under the plate Armour often chain or leather cloths are weard.So the animation and crafting recipes could be changed.The Uruks have strong plate Armour too I think but I cant say if they wear stuff like chain or leather cloths.The Orcs fight with ther mass and not with good stuff.Humans and Elves wear light Armour/cloths for more agility.Maybe some Humans wear heavy Armor like the Dwarves but mostly chain and leather how Ithillion said.


      PS: Hmmm I write many this could be a suggestion XD

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    • No, my idea is remove all plate armor.

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    • Great work! This suggestion is needed to be implemented. Rohirrim use completely iron ingots to make armours now, but the protection even weaker than the vanilla iron armour...

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    • Hmm... Perhaps if we look to the very beginning of the films, we can see that they originally started pretty true to the books. The Númenóreans wear surcoats over fine mail with good helms, while the Elves wear light semi-plate cuirasses and robes over long mail shirts. This might work best; not completely removing the plate, but modifying it to include more mail than it currently does.

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    • Ithilion I think it wouldnt be a good idea to remove plate armour completely but I like the idea to have not only plate armour.

      It wouldnt make sense to remove plate armour complete,sry :/ But it is unrealistic if no one have plate armor.I mean would it make sense if the People can make Stuff out of metal but they only can make Weapons and Chain Armour.Plate Armour would protect more then chain.

      I think it should give Chain Armour and so on but remove plate armour? No no no that wouldnt make sense in my eyes...

      Maybe I understand you wrong but I dont think so :/

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    • I want to remove plate simply mecause it isn't mentioned at all in the book, while mail is for all races. And the thing is, it took a long time for plate armor to become better than chainmail irl. Tolkien obviously wanted everyone to wear chainmail, and because of that I think it would be great for us to conform to his original intent, not Peter Jackson's. You say it is unrealistic? But why would Thorin and the other dwarves be stated as wearing chainmail? If they had plate, they would have worn it. But they didn't and so it has no place in ME.

      Faenor, my only objection is that Gil-Galad was stated as wearing "mail overlayed with silver" in the books, and I feel that had they plate armor, they would have worn that.

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    • Many Stuff isnt said in the books... But if the people can smith weapons and chain armour they also can smith plate armour.

      You wrote that plate armour have no place in ME. {I think Armour is Armour and the differnent Armour Types were released from time to time because the people saw that they are better then Chain and Leather.(Medieval lesson)LOL} I mean if it is possible to wear better Armour I think most people will do it.Hmmm that sounds like "I will climb that wall without climbing"

      Dwarves are great smiths and Elves too,so why shouldnt they smith plate armour? (Elves smith light Armour,i know) If People have the Skill to smith steal/iron/mithril etc. they will smith better stuff from time to time so I think the People in ME have the skill to smith plate armour (Maybe they dont do it...) if they want.


      And yes I know Ithilion you will say that nothing is written in the books of it,but it would make sense,or not?

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    • Elves do not smith "light armor." You may be thinking of Skyrim and other games where they do. Elves smith lighter equipment in the sense of physical weight, and just plain better in terms of quality and protectiveness.

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    • It does make sense, FusRoDah. But saying "there could be plate because Tolkien never wrote anything about it" brings up the Uzi rule, saying that "there could be Orcs with Uzi submachineguns because Tolkien never wrote anything about it". The thing is, there is just no evidence that anyone got to forging plate. The Dwarves in the Third age are explicitly stated as wearing mail. If they had plate, don't you think Tolkien would have said something about this? Tolkien wanted the armies of LOTR to be from a time before the invention of plate, the "Dark Ages" of Europe. So I feel that we should stick to the original intent.

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    • I feel as though there may be an example of plate being implied in the First Age but I can't find anything to support it. Not to mention the Silmarillion occasionally contradicts itself. Anyway kudos to you Ithilion. 

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    • What have this to do with machineguns?!? NOTHING I think...

      I only want to say that it is possible to smith plate armour with their skills but ok...

      Faenor I want to say with this that Elves are more scouts or archers so they have not really a use for plate armour.They need to move fast.But for example Dwarves or Uruks are fighting more with sword and shield (close combat),so would it make sense that they also have better armour,or not?

      Now I think I shut up because that cant be a disscousion with agood end for me :/

      I want to say that it is possible that they can have plate armour. Ohh and Ithilion it was a really bad comparsion with "machine guns".This is a Fantasy-Medieval universe,a really cool universe.Maybe you are a bit angry on me,if you are sorry.

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    • May I point out that most armies of the First Age were majority Elves? And that the Ñoldoli(High Elves) are more familiar with sword and spear than they are with bow? For that is explicitly stated in the Silmarillion, at the Kinslaying at Alqualondë in the Flight of the Ñoldor. The Teleri are archers. The Ñoldor are more heavy troops, used to the battle line and as rugged as any man or Dwarf. Do not mock the Elves because you have a misconception. Elves that could be considered "light" are all Silvan Elves(and Elrond's twin sons, who themselves also wore mail), and even then, many are mailed and probably with plate-joints and pauldrons.

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    • ...

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    • I get worked up when the Elves are mentioned in an unfavorable light. My apologies.

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    • if we are adding a chainmail version of armor maybe we should add a 5th armor slot left of the chestplate for chainmail armor. and while we are add it why not add scale armor my personal favirote. One idea is to create a Leather, Mail, Plate, and Scale armor for every faction it may be tedious but if mevans is working on an update and wants to add something small maybe he could do this idea, it would satisfy the lore-strict people, people who dont care, strategic people etc. Just my 2 cents on the matter

      @Prince of Ithilion just something small its not scale mail its Scale Armor or Scale Plate Armor. (im picky when it comes to this kinda of stuff lol), also OMG NO NO NO AND NO the uruk hai should not have a leather tunic they should have scale armor. imagine a orc in a leather tunic it makes me laugh

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    • May i just say this about Stupid Orcs, Corrupt Men, Diva Elves, and Greedy Dwarves. Ik the book has an apparrent good or evil theme on the surface but if you look further you will pick up some things. Elves are Greedy as well they march on a mountain willing to kill dwarves for gems, they are isolationists and very prideful. Men are Corrupt Ambitious Dishonest and probabaly the worst race. Dwarveds are Stubborn, Isolationists, Greedy, and Scared to face the world. Orcs are foul creatures that kill for the fun of it. The book is not just Black and White Its Gray. in other words just like real life There Is no Absolute Good Or  Absolute Evil Everything is imbetween its more complex than good and evil. I just said the bad things about Men Elves Dwarves and Orcs. 

      (sorry for double posting i just didnt want to put this in my suggestion post i am hearing lots of good and evil here so i decided to clear come things up)

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    • DavidReidHowe wrote:
      Elves are Greedy as well they march on a mountain willing to kill dwarves for gems, they are isolationists and very prideful. 

      Can you give me 3 examples of this happening? Shouldn't be that hard should it? At the time of the mod there is three main groups of Elves living in Middle Earth.

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    • Rayn Turammarth wrote:

      DavidReidHowe wrote:
      Elves are Greedy as well they march on a mountain willing to kill dwarves for gems, they are isolationists and very prideful. 

      Can you give me 3 examples of this happening? Shouldn't be that hard should it? At the time of the mod there is three main groups of Elves living in Middle Earth.

      The Thranduil gem argument was created by PJ, not Tolkien.

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    • The topic is determined by the subject(s) of the first post people ...

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    • I don't see why there is a need to change armor recipes if the only difference is a visual change.  Essentially the suggestion is to change the visual look of armor from one made from plate, to one made of mail/lamellar/scale.  This could even be done with a texture pack.

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    • Rayn Turammarth what is with the Avari Elves? :D

      (High Elves,Galadrim,Wood Elves and Avari Elves.I think the Rivendell Elves are a sub faction of the High Elves arent they?)

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    • FusRoDah666 wrote: Rayn Turammarth what is with the Avari Elves? :D

      (High Elves,Galadrim,Wood Elves and Avari Elves.I think the Rivendell Elves are a sub faction of the High Elves arent they?)

      Noldor, Sindar, Nandor, Avari. (Lindon and Rivendell, Lothloriën, Eryn Galen, Wild Woods, generally speaking.)

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    • FusRoDah666 wrote:
      Rayn Turammarth what is with the Avari Elves? :D

      Avari Elves, (or Moriquendi, as I like to call them) are Elves living in and near the Woods bordering the Orocarni.

      Avari are Elves that refused the summons to come to Aman, and hid themselves when Oromë found them.

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    • is anyone gonna comment on my actuall post about the real topic

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    • Ok Rayn interesting ^^

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    • The only bad thing about elves is their stubborness and pride and that is mostly the Noldor.

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    • i think that there should just be a recipe for chain mail armor and have gundabad orcs wear them randomly

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    • But what about everyone else wearing chain instead of plate?

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    • It would be to easy to kill them because chainmail is not so strong like plate armour :D

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    • First of all, chain mail is actually far better than it is made out to be. And second, why not keep armor stats the same? No need to change them.

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    • FusRoDah666 wrote:
      It would be to easy to kill them because chainmail is not so strong like plate armour :D

      You realize he's only suggesting a new recipe and texture?

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    • High King Ithilion, what about scale armor who will get that? i think the middlestern and asian cultures should get scale armor like, The Variags of Khand, Near harad, and especially rhun should get scale armor. 

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    • On your Galadhrim mail - I think it would look better as grey and white, not grey and gold. The Galadhrim wore grey, to blend in with the boles of the tree-stems; gold was the color of the russet leaves and boughs. Plus, grey and white generally look better together. I may provide a texture to explain what I mean here.

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    • @DRH yes, eastern factions should get scale.

      @Faenor Makes sense. But these guys aren't the camouflage people, they are the warriors. I feel like they would focus on battle more to an camo. I mean, the current ones wear gold. I feel it's the best aesthetic choice.

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    • No Rayn Ive read the whole suggestion but I think that the removing of ALL plate armour wouldnt be the best.I think it should give chainmail and also scale armour.It should give a combination of plate and chainmail armour and only chain armour. Uruk-Hai and Dwarves should have plate armour (maybe not all) and the other factions,Humans of the west and Orcs should wear chainmail,leather and fur armour (maybe elite troops should have a kind of plate armour),the humans of the north (Forodwaith) should wear leather,bone and fur armour,near Harad and humans of Rhun should wear scale armour and the Elves,I dont know :/

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    • What's wrong with utter removal of plate? We know the Dwarves haven't invented it by the late Third Age, so who would have it?

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:
      But what about everyone else wearing chain instead of plate?

      No, i think its fine everyone else is fine as it is the plate armor looks really good and without it, you wont have variety with factions. Every major one wearing chain? And think obout effectiveness. Chainmail can get cut through like butter against high impact attacks and arrows. with plate armor, you can still get shot, but you will need more impact and weapons like clubs, maces, and hammers to injure the enemy, also, youre going to have a hard time fighting against someone with plate with a sword or knife. I just think the gundies and militiamen (hired civillians) should have chain.

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    • I don't think that's the point of the suggestion. I'm a fan of plate-and-mail mixed armor, myself.

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    • EliSuperHero wrote:

      High King Ithilion wrote:
      But what about everyone else wearing chain instead of plate?

      No, i think its fine everyone else is fine as it is the plate armor looks really good and without it, you wont have variety with factions. Every major one wearing chain? And think obout effectiveness. Chainmail can get cut through like butter against high impact attacks and arrows. with plate armor, you can still get shot, but you will need more impact and weapons like clubs, maces, and hammers to injure the enemy, also, youre going to have a hard time fighting against someone with plate with a sword or knife. I just think the gundies and militiamen (hired civillians) should have chain.

      But no one has invented plate! No one! Not even the dwarves! There is no plate armor! And anyway, I don't mean everyone wears vanilla chain, I just mean that all the current armor be retextured to be chainmail.

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    • Not just chainmail we should have scale for eastern and southern nations near harad already has scale depending on culture it should be redesigned to chain, scale and leather armor

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    • I think Tolkien HAVENT invited how the Tauredain and Moredain look and live etc. Many things are secrets for example the Dark Lands.So why should plate armour be totaly removed because NOTHING is wrote in the books of existing plate armour?

      Combinations would be the best way and if you read my last Reply only TWO faction groups should have plate armour. Like a second armour slot bar, the normal slots for faction armour and the other slots for chain and/or leather.        


      You are right that not everyone should wear plate armour but the totally removeing is senseles and I think this wouldnt happen.

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    • it wont happen in near future mevans could care less about a little change like textureing i believe the textures look fine he has morei mportant things to do then change some textures just because of a small detail in lore.

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:

      EliSuperHero wrote:

      High King Ithilion wrote:
      But what about everyone else wearing chain instead of plate?

      Snip

      But no one has invented plate! No one! Not even the dwarves! There is no plate armor! And anyway, I don't mean everyone wears vanilla chain, I just mean that all the current armor be retextured to be chainmail.

      The Dwarves of the First Age almost certainly had plate armor backed with a VERY fire-resistant material. It is stated that the Dwarves of Belegost and Nogrod (Maybe only one of the two, I think it was Belegost but I don't remember) could resist the flames of Glaurung, Father of Dragons.

      Chainmail, which must be backed with a cloth-like layer of padding to prevent links from being embedded in the skin after a hit, cannot stop flames, and turns a Dwarf warrior into a flaming Dwarf wearing a very hot suit of rapidly fusing metal pieces wondering A. Why he showed up to this massacre and B. Why he wore flammable materials into a war where the other guy has dragons. Oh, and Balrogs. Don't forget those things.

      Plate armor, however, backed with mail and that padding layer, combined with the Dwarves' incredible resistance to all forms of physical hardship, could yield a more realistic means of becoming, not very crisp dragon-snacks, but instead very angry, very hot Dwarf warriors with axes. Lots of axes.

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    • High King Ithilion
      High King Ithilion removed this reply because:
      Double post
      21:38, March 27, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • @ madman Dwarves were said to be fire resistant themselves, and they probably wore some flame retardant cloth under their armor. And also, if they had plate, why didn't the Dwarves of the Iron Hills wear it to Erebor?

      @ Fus Ro Dah But as I've said, the dwarves hadn't invented it, and being the greatest craftsmen in ME, they would be the ones who would.

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    • You remove a reply because it was a double post, then you go do a double post yourself??!! :P

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    • ??

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    • But it wouldnt make much sense that the Dwarves,the greatest craftmen/smiths,have no plate armour. And I say it again there are many secrets/questions wich cant be answered.Or should it be a big deal for the Dwarves to smith plate armour? I dont think so... Also this mod wouldnt be completly like the books but Mevans try to do everything like in the books.I wouldnt be sad about the removing of plate armour,but in my eyes it wouldnt make much sense :/

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    • I agree, it doesn't make sense. But what Tolkien said is the canon.

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    • Had he said that there is no one who had plate armour? :D

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    • Well, seeing as he didn't say anything about it, and the greatest craftsmen of the age didn't wear it, the odds are it didn't exist. Did you read my two links?

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    • "We make good armour and keen swords, but we cannot again make mail or blade to match those that were made before the dragon came." -Gloin at the Rivendell council in the fellowship.

      If the Dwarves of Erebor were not forging mail like they used to, what were they making? Instead of blades, they must have made axes/hammers, and instead of mail, they might be making plate armour! 

      However, dwarf mail should be a seperate thing from dwarf plates, but you would only be able to craft dwarf mail on an ancient dwarven crafting table found in ruined mines. You would make dwarven steel rings like you do with gold/silver/mithril, and craft them into the armour as you would in a normal armour recipie. The same holds true for all other factions' mail, it should be with iron or faction specific rings in an armour recepie.

      If plate armour and mail armour are made into two separate things, plate armour should block more damage from heavy weapons like hammers and axes, while chainmail should offer more projectile and blade protection.

      That is all.

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    • That just means that their ancestors were better smiths. They still make mail, just not as good a quality as that which their ancestors made. Hammer were used almost exclusively for defeating plate armoured opponents, in hopes of getting enough force throwing their armour to deal significant damage, but really are not much better than sticks against much less restricting armour such as mail. You would get one swing before your opponent could defeat you with his own weapons. Mail could be pierced, but cutting was more difficult. Hammers should not have damage reduction, while projectiles and blades should have damage reduction against plate, it it is retained.

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    • I would prefer a system of both plate and mail, myself. Since we know of plate, why should we not use it?

      I propose that the naturally-spawning NPC Warriors wear mail armor, and that plate-armored Warriors be available from captains for a slightly heftier price than before. Both plate and mail could be craftable, each with it's own advantage; mail is normal speed and has a damage reduction against heavy weapons meant for crushing(maces and hammers), while plate has the Slowness I effect and has damage reduction against cutting weapons. This would add a bit of variety to combat, with more options and strategies(and since the naturally spawning Warriors all wear mail, you can assume that you outfitted the plate-armored Warriors yourself).

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    • Plate armour could give a reduction to knockback, as it was significantly heavier than mail.

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    • I'm still against plate at all. We know it was never worn, so why have it? It worked for the M&B mod TLD.

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    • WHAT ABOUT SCALE YOU KEEP FORGETTING POOR LIL SCALE AND SCALE IS CANON

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    • We are all in agreement that chain mail armour SHOULD be added at least. The main source of disagreement, however, is whether or not to keep plate. First, I would like to propose how to make chain armour. To forge it, you would first craft rings with the respective material of the armour with 8 nuggets in a circle on the respective crafting table ex. a blue dwarven steel ring made from eight blue dwarven steel nuggets. After this, the rings would have to be heated up in a forge or furnace to make molten rings, which would be put in an armour recepie on a crafting table ex. 8 molten iron rings on a Gondor CT for a Gondorian mail shirt. However, the molten rings would cool to normal rings quickly, within 1 minute or so of being forged. However, we seem to disagree the most on whether to keep plate armour. Although it is slightly non-canon, I proposed it be kept for the purpose of gameplay. This is like how Uruk pikes were still added despite of them not being mentioned by Tolkien: they add a whole new element of combat range! The new element would be this: Chainmail armour and Plate Armour would offer the same base protection, but Chain would lose durability much faster when hit by projectiles or "stabbing weapons"(swords, pikes, etc.) Plate armour would lose a lot of durability when hit by hammers, axes, and maces. This might make chain armour look weak, but plate armour would give off a slowness I effect. Additionally, all "light" armour a would get speed I, adding an element of players switching between travel and battle armour. Oh, the plate armour would be an alternative for every faction, and would have similar forging to mail: ingots smelted into molten ingots, and crafted into plate armour. I believe that the minor contradiction to canon would be worth to add the choosing of certain armours for certain situations.

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    • Guys, why not like a combination, people would wear a mail short underneath some plate, so we just change the textures to show mail, it would be every annoying to add several new armours for existing factions as well as new ones, BUT we could make a plain set of mail armor, not faction specific because I mean, there's no difference between one mail shirt than another (besides the race who makes it and the skill of the craftsman but we can't make a new skill variable in smithing but we can have elven and dwarf mail different)

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:
      @ madman Dwarves were said to be fire resistant themselves, and they probably wore some flame retardant cloth under their armor. And also, if they had plate, why didn't the Dwarves of the Iron Hills wear it to Erebor?

      @ Fus Ro Dah But as I've said, the dwarves hadn't invented it, and being the greatest craftsmen in ME, they would be the ones who would.

      Fire resistant? Does this mean that the Desolation of Smaug is actually plausible on that regard?

      How about bunches of rings for every metal (no heating required), which are used in place of iron in the otherwise same crafting recipes.

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    • They were. Read the chapter on Nirnaeth Arnoediad again.

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    • I give it up...

      Ithilion IF there is nothing written in the books about plate armour I can understand it BUT IF there isnt written that plate armour doesnt exist why should it not exist in  the mod? I mean if we dont know (we dont know many things about the ME Universe) why shouldnt plate armour stay in the game?

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    • 50.205.51.206 wrote:
      This is like how Uruk pikes were still added despite of them not being mentioned by Tolkien: they add a whole new element of combat range! 

      They were canon, and used at Fords of Isen.

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    • Legoarmy505 wrote:
      Guys, why not like a combination, people would wear a mail short underneath some plate, so we just change the textures to show mail, it would be every annoying to add several new armours for existing factions as well as new ones, BUT we could make a plain set of mail armor, not faction specific because I mean, there's no difference between one mail shirt than another (besides the race who makes it and the skill of the craftsman but we can't make a new skill variable in smithing but we can have elven and dwarf mail different)

      My suggestion doesn't mean making new chainmail armors, I mean that all armor should be retextured to something other than plate. 

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    • FusRoDah666 wrote:
      I give it up...

      Ithilion IF there is nothing written in the books about plate armour I can understand it BUT IF there isnt written that plate armour doesnt exist why should it not exist in  the mod? I mean if we dont know (we dont know many things about the ME Universe) why shouldnt plate armour stay in the game?

      I don't really understand what you mean by the first part...

      But here is why I am against plate armor. I feel it goes against Tolkien's original intent. Seeing as there is overwhelming evidence for chainmail being the best they had, I feel we should follow his wishes for our mod and stick with it..

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    • I should really give it up :/

      Its only Armour...

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    • For all of you opposed to 100% chainmail armour (and no plate armour) in the mod, you do realize that you can just make/get a resource pack that puts the textures back to the movie-based/current textures if you are really that opposed to a more canon look. I still support both plate and mail, but just saying...

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    • Maltalidenta Kwuitidherali
      Maltalidenta Kwuitidherali removed this reply because:
      Misread the previous statement.
      01:22, March 29, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • That's what he's saying...

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    • 9. The Dwarves of Durin's Folk: These had unique weapons and armor. "In battle they wielded heavy two-handed mattocks; but each of them had also a short broad sword at his side and a round shield slung at his back. Their beards were forked and plaited and thrust into their belts. Their caps were of iron and they were shod with iron, and their faces were grim."   Obviously, the weaopns and armor of the Iron Hills dwarves should be changed to match this. The Trimmed armor should instead we changed to Gilded armor-chainmail gilded in the repective metal.

      10. Ered Luin: The Dwarves of Ered Lun should wear similar (but blue) armor, but also terrifying, gilded facemasks. All Dwarves should have moderate fire resistance, and maybe wearing a full set of Belegost Armor (gilded Blue Mountains gear with mask) could give moderate resistance.

      I do however feel thay would have worn plate armor on their chest and have chainmail kilts. Dwarves as they are know in Lotr and other fantasy worlds always have worn heavy armor, and no diffrent in Lotr, most dwarves we see are traveling so they would where lighter armor (chain mail) more likely dwarves would wear plate armor or ring mail

      MAIL

      (large metal plates over vital areas, chainmail in other areas

      Obviously it would not be bronze but I'm sure you get the idea, this as another fact is norse in deseign (dwarves use many nordic things) 

      This is what I imagine warriors wearing as they march into battle

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    • High King Ithilion wrote: That's what he's saying...

      I'm gonna pretend that never happened.

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    • Well, Zombielizard, wouldn't the Company of Thorin in Erebor have donned plate armor? Because they all put on mail when they got inside. Thorin, the king, wore gold plated chainmail. They would have worn plate if they had it.

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    • I did more research, tolkein, more likely than not did not intend for an argument to break out over textures in minecraft, I looked into descriptions of armor in both LOTR and real medival armor, he rarely says chain mail, only mail this could also refer to scale-mail or ring-mail, both of which have plates, just not in high amounts, I think the type of mail should be relevent to the faction, dwarves using scalemail, men using ringmail, and eleves and rangers wearing chainmail 

      (short description of each type of armor)

      Scale = small metal 'scales' overlaping with chains or leather in joints

      Ring = chain mail overlaping or being overlaped by leather or small metal plates

      Chain = a series of interlocking metal rings being used as armor

      Based on descriptions of the fighting style of various races I made my statement about who has what

      also, when tolkein was describing the armor of middle earth he didn't give a description of all armor far a specific faction, yes thorin and compnay wore mail, but Thorin wore gold plated armor over his mail, (as did the other dwarves) so while not common some instances can be found where character have plates over their mail armor

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    • Well, we know that metal plates are not terribly difficult to forge. Platemail, in the form of a coat of plates, was in use LONG before chainmail forms. Especially see hoplites.

      Once again, natural fire resistance, yet TA Dwarves not capable of defeating Smaug. Clearly, only some Dwarves could defeat fire-breathing killing machines. I'd argue that the FA/Elder Days Dwarves had superior tech, with some plate surviving.

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    • I agree madman, in the past it is undeniable dwarves wore plates, likely during the third age they would have worn plated-mail

      Dwarven armor
      See this is chain mail, with rectangular metal plates over the chest, (known as plated mail, thorin was described as wearing gold plated mail, coincidence?)

      it is likely the compromise of this argument

      The problem with adding chain mail everything is there were no chain mail leggings, people wore mail-kilts or leather pants.

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    • Madman198237 wrote: Well, we know that metal plates are not terribly difficult to forge. Platemail, in the form of a coat of plates, was in use LONG before chainmail forms. Especially see hoplites.

      Once again, natural fire resistance, yet TA Dwarves not capable of defeating Smaug. Clearly, only some Dwarves could defeat fire-breathing killing machines. I'd argue that the FA/Elder Days Dwarves had superior tech, with some plate surviving.

      *ahem* Contact with elves.

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    • Zombielizard wrote:
      I agree madman, in the past it is undeniable dwarves wore plates, likely during the third age they would have worn plated-mail

      Um, what? the best armor availible during the First Age was Dwarf-Mail. The elves gave it to Turin to protect him,and they would only give him the best. There is no plate.

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    • fine then but you Ithilion, mentioned thorin wore gold plated chain mail, the image I inserted above (of chain mail with iron plates over the chest) is the same basic concept.       Is it that hard to beleive they might have added some plates to save their lives, you can streatch the truth a little 


      Just a note I do feel the textures should feature more prominent chainmail, just not be 100% mail

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:

      50.205.51.206 wrote:
      This is like how Uruk pikes were still added despite of them not being mentioned by Tolkien: they add a whole new element of combat range! 

      They were canon, and used at Fords of Isen.

      Huh, never knew those were canon. But still, there are many things this mod has that are non-canon but are here for the sake of gameplay (but they still make sense somewhat). Even though plate armour probably wasn't imagined by Tolkien, it should still exist as an alternative to Chainmail because it would be a good way to add a new immersive combat element.

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    • (Side note: When you say chain-mail, you're saying chain-chain; mail on her own works fine as a word, unless you're referring to scale-mail)

      Currently, I feel like thin metal strips over a long leather coat(The Galadhrim armor from TATW and the film) would probably be an accurate depiction of First Age armor before the invention of the slightly heavier but more protective mail armor. In this case, the Silvan Elves would probably have kept this armor around(though it would not have been nearly as prevalent or popular), so an armor like those seen might be available to the Galadhrim and Wood-elves; whereas the armor of the High Elves and more modern Silvan Elves would probably have a long mail coat and helm over leather jerkins and leggings(Maethyr i-Thewair, same game).

      We may have a Early and Late period style arms for the First Age; Early period would probably be more leather with light metal strips or perhaps small amounts of plate; Late period would have mail armor and more varied helms.

      As the focus of the First Age turned from defeating lone bands of Yrch(First Battle and previous) the invention of mail would have been more useful as time went on. However, the iconic armors should just be cast aside? I say nay to that. We can have different sets of plate and mail, and make the NPCs all wear mail, while players may wear plate. That is my voice on the matter.

      While we are to stay true to Tolkien's books, true, we should at least give ourselves a nod to Peter Jackson's attempt to recreate the world. Without the films none of us would visualize the world of Middle-earth the way we do; our very conceptions about the Elves are biased toward what our eyes have seen. In the animated films, for instance, the Wood-elves are depicted as gnomish green-blue skinned creatures, not tall and fair like the other Elves, and using no metal implements(unlike in mod or film). And yet the mod does not depict them thus.

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    • I still dont think they should be removed or reskinned because theyre iconic, its mainly what we know those factions by. If you want things to be removed just because it isnt mentioned then why arent you saying anything about crossbows?

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    • Zombielizard wrote:
      I agree madman, in the past it is undeniable dwarves wore plates, likely during the third age they would have worn plated-mail
      Dwarven armor
      See this is chain mail, with rectangular metal plates over the chest, (known as plated mail, thorin was described as wearing gold plated mail, coincidence?)

      it is likely the compromise of this argument

      The problem with adding chain mail everything is there were no chain mail leggings, people wore mail-kilts or leather pants.

      I still think they wore full plate, as the Dwarves smithing far far beyond chain, and with their legendary heavy infantry, you would think they would use it...

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    • i think that the dwarves of the iron hills didnt Wear plate is because they were in need of all the speed they could get. their stationary soldiers (Castle and city guards) would Wear part plate though they would mostly use mail. this could also Work for most other factions.

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    • 66.87.78.247 wrote:

      High King Ithilion wrote:

      50.205.51.206 wrote:
      This is like how Uruk pikes were still added despite of them not being mentioned by Tolkien: they add a whole new element of combat range! 
      They were canon, and used at Fords of Isen.
      Huh, never knew those were canon. But still, there are many things this mod has that are non-canon but are here for the sake of gameplay (but they still make sense somewhat). Even though plate armour probably wasn't imagined by Tolkien, it should still exist as an alternative to Chainmail because it would be a good way to add a new immersive combat element.

      I believe you misunderstand what I mean. I am noit caling for new crafting recipes, simply retextures of the current armors.

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:

      66.87.78.247 wrote:

      High King Ithilion wrote:

      50.205.51.206 wrote:
      This is like how Uruk pikes were still added despite of them not being mentioned by Tolkien: they add a whole new element of combat range! 
      They were canon, and used at Fords of Isen.
      Huh, never knew those were canon. But still, there are many things this mod has that are non-canon but are here for the sake of gameplay (but they still make sense somewhat). Even though plate armour probably wasn't imagined by Tolkien, it should still exist as an alternative to Chainmail because it would be a good way to add a new immersive combat element.

      I believe you misunderstand what I mean. I am noit caling for new crafting recipes, simply retextures of the current armors.

      Ok. I understand that you just want re-textures, but I believe that it would be better to add actual Chainmail that works alongside the current plate armour.

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    • Adding more armour types will only be meaningful, in my opinion, if simultaneously more armour attributes are introduced. See my earlier replies above for more on that train of thoughts.

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    • AlteOgre wrote:
      Adding more armour types will only be meaningful, in my opinion, if simultaneously more armour attributes are introduced. See my earlier replies above for more on that train of thoughts.

      I agree. Even if plate armour isn't canon

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    • Most of the warriors we see in LotR are in need of all speed possible. They wouldn't wear plate armor especially if they had it.

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    • I know probably no one will agree with me but meh.

      I like plate armour! I think it looks good. Chain mail just looks displeasing to me. I always like to stay with the lore but I just enjoy looking at full metal plate armor to chain mail armour. There's my 2 cents in this discussion now.

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    • Ithilion,only texture changing would be stupid.Chaimail hadnt a such good protection like plate armour sooo the armour points have to be changed,the durablility cant be the same because chain broke faster then plate and the crafting recipes must be new because how should you craft chainmail with ingots? (the crafting isnt realistic for everything I know but there must be something like metal rings,nuggets or another stuff)

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    • SamwiseFilmore
      SamwiseFilmore removed this reply because:
      Rickrolling
      23:08, March 29, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Why does it matter??? Just have it be chainmail! The durability, armor, ect doesn't need to be changed! I do think that chainmail rings should be added, but the rest doesn't matter.

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    • What about 2 different types? Gondor mail and Gondor plate armour?

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    • Well, the purpose of this suggestion is to remove all plate armor from the mod, bar none.

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    • Dang...

      I'll make my own suggestion about this soon...

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    • Ronshol The Black wrote:
      I know probably no one will agree with me but meh.

      I like plate armour! I think it looks good. Chain mail just looks displeasing to me. I always like to stay with the lore but I just enjoy looking at full metal plate armor to chain mail armour. There's my 2 cents in this discussion now.

      I agree! plate armour looks awesome!!! I dont want it to go just because its not mentioned.

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    • Well, you guys could all download Calanon Evergreen's wonderful texture packs, which are movie-based.

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    • While we're on the subject of mail armor and the canon of it...

      I don't like how this "it's more lore-accurate" lie is being spread. There is absolutely no description of Wood-elven arms and armor in the Hobbit, other than that they "glowed with chill flame, so deadly was the wrath of the hands that held them." They might have gone into battle nude for all we know. A more plausible representation of their armor would probably have been an ornate green-and-brown leather lorica plumata or lorica squamata, with a metal helm, greaves, and bracers. They wouldn't have used fine steel or even had full sets of mail; it's specifically stated that they weren't the best metalworkers and they did not mine much, if at all. The Wood-elves simply would not have the production power necessary to make such an armor. - Me, on Wood-elven armor.

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    • in the two Towers when theoden offers Legolas, Aragorn and gimli chainmail but gimli refuses because he has a breastplate made by the dwarves of erebor. so lore wise plate did exist.

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    • No, he had a hauberk (chainmail coat)

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    • Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote:
      While we're on the subject of mail armor and the canon of it...

      I don't like how this "it's more lore-accurate" lie is being spread. There is absolutely no description of Wood-elven arms and armor in the Hobbit, other than that they "glowed with chill flame, so deadly was the wrath of the hands that held them." They might have gone into battle nude for all we know. A more plausible representation of their armor would probably have been an ornate green-and-brown leather lorica plumata or lorica squamata, with a metal helm, greaves, and bracers. They wouldn't have used fine steel or even had full sets of mail; it's specifically stated that they weren't the best metalworkers and they did not mine much, if at all. The Wood-elves simply would not have the production power necessary to make such an armor. - Me, on Wood-elven armor.

      I agree. The armor looks pretty good imo, but could do with some scale armor and a weaker recipe.

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    • It would be stupid if the protection and durablility would be the same for chainmail,so that also must be changed... If you want that the mod is more like the books that have to be changed or do you want to say that plate an chain protect you the same way? Im against the COMPLETE removing of plate armour but if all armour will be changed into chainmail the protection,the durablility and the crafting  recipes have to be changed (also if chainmail is added and plate armour stay in the mod).

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    • High King Ithilion wrote: No, he had a hauberk (chainmail coat)

      oh in the Danish version they said breastplate(directly translated from Danish to English)so sorry(I even search on it and it showed me a chestplate).

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    • FusRoDah666 wrote:
      It would be stupid if the protection and durablility would be the same for chainmail,so that also must be changed... If you want that the mod is more like the books that have to be changed or do you want to say that plate an chain protect you the same way? Im against the COMPLETE removing of plate armour but if all armour will be changed into chainmail the protection,the durablility and the crafting  recipes have to be changed (also if chainmail is added and plate armour stay in the mod).

      No it doesn't. The defense and durability is rather arbitrary, so if all plate is removed, all that needs to be changed is crafting and texture.

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    • There is ony the difference that chain is weaker.... But if you mean...

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    • But if there is no plate to compare it to, than we can just say the chain is that strong.

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    • Apologies for the slight necropost, but here are some drawings of possible replacement armor (feel free to whip up a texture).

      FullSizeRender-11

      Ranger of the North

      FullSizeRender-6

      Black Uruk of Barad-Dur

      FullSizeRender-7

      Minas Morgul/Black Numenorean Knight

      FullSizeRender-10

      Gondor Men-At-Arms

      FullSizeRender-9

      Citadel Guard

      FullSizeRender-4

      Mordor Tracker

      FullSizeRender-5

      Mordor Uruk

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    • I like it, except for the Uruk, which just HAS to stay the same. It just looked to awesome, to iconic and to wonderful to change to just any other Orc. I like them all, but the Uruk Armour stays. Please Ithilion, I beg you, keep the beautiful Uruks as they are and don't turn them into any old boring orc. They look fabulous now and in the books Tolkien said nothing against how it looked in the movies... Keep the Uruk Hai Armour as it is... I beg you...

      HammerDwarven reverse LordDainTheAwsome, King under the Mountain (send a raven!)

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    • I like all of them including the Uruk one. How can the current uruk armour be beautiful while it doesn't even fit the Steven model?

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    • I always imagined the Mordor shield would look a bit more like this:
      MordorShieldEye
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    • I thought helms and shields could be solid metal; what's the big technological step between them and plate armour?

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    • no,no,no. The plate armor looks great. Not to mention it is iconic. Its what we know most of these factions by. If you want to remove everything that tolkiend did not mention, then remove crossbows. 

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    • EliSuperHero wrote:
      no,no,no. The plate armor looks great. Not to mention it is iconic. Its what we know most of these factions by. If you want to remove everything that tolkiend did not mention, then remove crossbows. 

      HE specifically mentions that almost all factions wore chainmail...

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    • The Indomitable wrote:
      EliSuperHero wrote:
      no,no,no. The plate armor looks great. Not to mention it is iconic. Its what we know most of these factions by. If you want to remove everything that tolkiend did not mention, then remove crossbows. 
      HE specifically mentions that almost all factions wore chainmail...

      yes, i know he did. I just dont want plate armor removed. 

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    • The fact you don't want it removed is rather obvious...

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    • Rayn Turammarth wrote:

      I always imagined the Mordor shield would look a bit more like this:
      MordorShieldEye
      Orque-Terre du Milieu

      This image on wikipedia was impressed me deeply on the concept of Mordor shield...

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    • Bad idea! I would keep the armor, if you dont like how it looks, use a resourcepack!

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    • To make a point. The current Black Uruks ARE the elite guard of the Tower, and the current Gundabad Uruks are the elite warriors of Bolg. Neither will be nerfed, due to balance concerns.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 10:08, April 8, 2016 (UTC)

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    • Assassin of Harad wrote: Bad idea! I would keep the armor, if you dont like how it looks, use a resourcepack!

      Don't Kudos your own post. And why don't YOU get a resourcepack to change how it looks, this is a lore-friendly additon.

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    • Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:
      To make a point. The current Black Uruks ARE the elite guard of the Tower, and the current Gundabad Uruks are the elite warriors of

      Bolg. Neither will be nerfed, due to balance concerns.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 10:08, April 8, 2016 (UTC)

      Well, the thing is, "Uruks" were the main soldiers of the Dark Tower. So maybe a new unit could be added called "Uruks", being as strong as a Rohirrim? Mordor orcs could be renamed to "Mordor Snaga" to accomodate this. Also, the "Black Guard of Barad-Dur" should be made to only spawn in Barad-Dur (when added), invasions, and be hireable.

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    • LordDainTheAwsome wrote:
      I like it, except for the Uruk, which just HAS to stay the same. It just looked to awesome, to iconic and to wonderful to change to just any other Orc. I like them all, but the Uruk Armour stays. Please Ithilion, I beg you, keep the beautiful Uruks as they are and don't turn them into any old boring orc. They look fabulous now and in the books Tolkien said nothing against how it looked in the movies... Keep the Uruk Hai Armour as it is... I beg you...

      HammerDwarven reverse LordDainTheAwsome, King under the Mountain (send a raven!)

      This is a Mordor Uruk (the front line units of the Tower). The Black Uruks stay the same (maybe with a black robe).

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    • How many posts...

      I must say it one time again Im not for the TOTALLY removing of plate armour,but Im for the addition of chainmail. But nobody cares about that so....

      EliSuperHero I agree with you that crossbows also can be removed because Tolkien didnt wrote something about that. (Yeah in the Films the Uruk-Hai have crossbows,but the films arent canon so...)

      Wargaz cc The Shield looks pretty cool that you found ;)

      Ithilion cool paintings ^^

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    • Thanks :)

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:

      LordDainTheAwsome wrote:
      I like it, except for the Uruk, which just HAS to stay the same. It just looked to awesome, to iconic and to wonderful to change to just any other Orc. I like them all, but the Uruk Armour stays. Please Ithilion, I beg you, keep the beautiful Uruks as they are and don't turn them into any old boring orc. They look fabulous now and in the books Tolkien said nothing against how it looked in the movies... Keep the Uruk Hai Armour as it is... I beg you...

      HammerDwarven reverse LordDainTheAwsome, King under the Mountain (send a raven!)

      This is a Mordor Uruk (the front line units of the Tower). The Black Uruks stay the same (maybe with a black robe).

      The same would go for Uruk Hai...

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    • FusRoDah666 wrote:
      How many posts...

      I must say it one time again Im not for the TOTALLY removing of plate armour,but Im for the addition of chainmail. But nobody cares about that so....

      EliSuperHero I agree with you that crossbows also can be removed because Tolkien didnt wrote something about that. (Yeah in the Films the Uruk-Hai have crossbows,but the films arent canon so...)

      Wargaz cc The Shield looks pretty cool that you found ;)

      Ithilion cool paintings ^^

      Its not that i want them both to be removed, im just making an analogy. I also think it would be nice to have hired militia or scavengers (gundabad orcs and isengard snagae) to wear pieces or maybe a set of chainmail. I dont want the plate removed.

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    • EliSuperHero wrote:
      FusRoDah666 wrote:
      How many posts...

      I must say it one time again Im not for the TOTALLY removing of plate armour,but Im for the addition of chainmail. But nobody cares about that so....

      EliSuperHero I agree with you that crossbows also can be removed because Tolkien didnt wrote something about that. (Yeah in the Films the Uruk-Hai have crossbows,but the films arent canon so...)

      Wargaz cc The Shield looks pretty cool that you found ;)

      Ithilion cool paintings ^^

      Its not that i want them both to be removed, im just making an analogy. I also think it would be nice to have hired militia or scavengers (gundabad orcs and isengard snagae) to wear pieces or maybe a set of chainmail. I dont want the plate removed.

      It is literally stated as non-canon. Not as "not mentioned." EVERY armor mentioned is chainmail, or something along those lines. 

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    • High King Ithilion wrote: Apologies for the slight necropost, but here are some drawings of possible replacement armor (feel free to whip up a texture).

      FullSizeRender-11

      Ranger of the North

      I had previously created some rather basic textures for an updated variant of Ranger Armour, and they are as follows...

      • Redesigned Ranger Hood...
      • Redesigned Ranger Chestplate...
      • Redesigned Ranger Leggings...
      • Redesigned Ranger Boots...
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    • War Pig1237 wrote:

      High King Ithilion wrote: Apologies for the slight necropost, but here are some drawings of possible replacement armor (feel free to whip up a texture).

      FullSizeRender-11

      Ranger of the North

      I had previously created some rather basic textures for an updated variant of Ranger Armour, and they are as follows...
      • Redesigned Ranger Hood...
      • Redesigned Ranger Chestplate...
      • Redesigned Ranger Leggings...
      • Redesigned Ranger Boots...

      wait, why do rangers need retexturing? did it say they had mail in the books? if so, having chainmail that can jingle and glitter in the sun dosent seem very stealthy to me. By the way, where and how do you make those textures?

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    • EliSuperHero wrote:

      War Pig1237 wrote:

      High King Ithilion wrote: Apologies for the slight necropost, but here are some drawings of possible replacement armor (feel free to whip up a texture).

      FullSizeRender-11

      Ranger of the North

      I had previously created some rather basic textures for an updated variant of Ranger Armour, and they are as follows...

      • Redesigned Ranger Hood...
      • Redesigned Ranger Chestplate...
      • Redesigned Ranger Leggings...
      • Redesigned Ranger Boots...

      wait, why do rangers need retexturing? did it say they had mail in the books? if so, having chainmail that can jingle and glitter in the sun dosent seem very stealthy to me. By the way, where and how do you make those textures.

      Rangers of the North wear grey, and Rangers of Ithilien wear green and brown. There are different groups of people: one is the body of armed guards who patrol a region where is Eriador, the other one is the soldier specially trained in the techniques of guerrilla warfare, especially in jungle terrain where is Ithilien. In Chinese, they are even different words.

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    • Wargaz cc wrote:

      EliSuperHero wrote:

      War Pig1237 wrote:

      High King Ithilion wrote: Apologies for the slight necropost, but here are some drawings of possible replacement armor (feel free to whip up a texture).

      FullSizeRender-11

      Ranger of the North

      I had previously created some rather basic textures for an updated variant of Ranger Armour, and they are as follows...
      • Redesigned Ranger Hood...
      • Redesigned Ranger Chestplate...
      • Redesigned Ranger Leggings...
      • Redesigned Ranger Boots...
      wait, why do rangers need retexturing? did it say they had mail in the books? if so, having chainmail that can jingle and glitter in the sun dosent seem very stealthy to me. By the way, where and how do you make those textures.
      Rangers of the North wear grey, and Rangers of Ithilien wear green and brown. There are different groups of people: one is the body of armed guards who patrol a region where is Eriador, the other one is the soldier specially trained in the techniques of guerrilla warfare, especially in jungle terrain where is Ithilien. In Chinese, they are even different words.

      ok. That makes more sense. Rangers of the north would actually look really good in grey. But, i think they should make the capes gray but same designs, same brown boots, keep and those straps on the tunic, and keep the knee padding on the  leggings.

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    • Yeah, I would add black straps on the tunic, black boots, a star on the right breast, vambraces, and visible mail on the chestpiece itself.

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    • EliSuperHero wrote:
      Wargaz cc wrote:

      EliSuperHero wrote:


      War Pig1237 wrote:

      High King Ithilion wrote: Apologies for the slight necropost, but here are some drawings of possible replacement armor (feel free to whip up a texture).

      FullSizeRender-11

      Ranger of the North

      I had previously created some rather basic textures for an updated variant of Ranger Armour, and they are as follows...
      • Redesigned Ranger Hood...
      • Redesigned Ranger Chestplate...
      • Redesigned Ranger Leggings...
      • Redesigned Ranger Boots...
      wait, why do rangers need retexturing? did it say they had mail in the books? if so, having chainmail that can jingle and glitter in the sun dosent seem very stealthy to me. By the way, where and how do you make those textures.
      Rangers of the North wear grey, and Rangers of Ithilien wear green and brown. There are different groups of people: one is the body of armed guards who patrol a region where is Eriador, the other one is the soldier specially trained in the techniques of guerrilla warfare, especially in jungle terrain where is Ithilien. In Chinese, they are even different words.
      ok. That makes more sense. Rangers of the north would actually look really good in grey. But, i think they should make the capes gray but same designs, same brown boots, keep and those straps on the tunic, and keep the knee padding on the  leggings. Also, maybe when seasons come, the rangers of the north wear green in spring and summer and wear grey in fall and winter? That way it can be much more practical and realistic.


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    • High King Ithilion wrote:
      Yeah, I would add black straps on the tunic, black boots, a star on the right breast, vambraces, and visible mail on the chestpiece itself.

      Yes! that would look really good! Something we finally agree on lol. Also what are youre thoughts on the seasons thing i just proposed?

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    • Also, I realise that if chain replaces plate, "chestplates" will have to be renamed to "hauberks".

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    • I think it was planned, but your suggestion is very detailed! Good work!

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    • EliSuperHero wrote:

      High King Ithilion wrote:
      Yeah, I would add black straps on the tunic, black boots, a star on the right breast, vambraces, and visible mail on the chestpiece itself.

      Yes! that would look really good! Something we finally agree on lol. Also what are youre thoughts on the seasons thing i just proposed?

      Sorry I haven't read your post yet, but the seasons thing is really hard to code. In minecraft mechanics, it is different to make every grass blocks suddenly change the colour...

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    • Wargaz cc wrote:

      Rangers of the North wear grey, and Rangers of Ithilien wear green and brown. There are different groups of people: one is the body of armed guards who patrol a region where is Eriador, the other one is the soldier specially trained in the techniques of guerrilla warfare, especially in jungle terrain where is Ithilien. In Chinese, they are even different words.

      I am very aware of this, and of course agree that if the current Ranger Armour was re-textured, then a separate variant which would closely resemble the current design would need to be implemented for the use of the Rangers of Ithilien.

      High King Ithilion wrote: Yeah, I would add black straps on the tunic, black boots, a star on the right breast, vambraces, and visible mail on the chestpiece itself.

      In response to this, please take into account that these textures were created quite some time before this discussion, and were not based upon your description or design (Although, I agree that the illustration and design which you have provided is superb). However, perhaps an attempt could be made by myself or others to update these textures.

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    • DavidReidHowe wrote:
      Elves are Greedy as well they march on a mountain willing to kill dwarves for gems, they are isolationists and very prideful.

      1. Evidence from the BOOKS?

      2. The movies overexagerate the elves jerkiness by a LONG, LONG shot. (In the books, Thranduil is actually kinda ok.)

      3. Prideful? Very doughtful.

      4. Perhaps the Isolationism is wise, and really, other races should do it too.

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    • LOTRGuy, when did you last read the Hobbit? The Elves do march on the Mountain prepared to kill. However, those are the Wood-elves, and so are pretty much the lowest of the Western Elves.

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    • I last read the hobbit like two years ago, so I don't remember much. Also, Wood-Elves are lowely, but he was generalizing all elves.

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    • I once hated this post but im sorry i understood it wrong xD

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    • So is this a retexture cause that'd be cool or is it like a complete redesign including protection stats

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    • It's just a retexture, and possibly crafting change. Armor stats stay the same, unless mentioned.

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    • I hate plate armour. They are such plain in minecraft. And I really do recommend Mevans to change Rohirric and Dalish armour stats, because they are made out of iron but only have bronze level protection, and that is such a pain comparing Moredain can make same level armour out of animal fur.

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    • I dont hate plate armour and if you have looked correctly guys you will see that some parts of the dalish armour are out of chain ^^

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    • dalish armour is chain with a blue coat.

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    • Gimme my guards, I want them now :P

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    • Aran and out of what are their Helmets and Chestplates? ^^

      Looks like Plate Armour :P

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    • if you take a close look the chestplate and leggings are similar to the standard rohiric version, but with grey(in its different variants)taking browns place(in its different variants). the helmet is a norman helmet. just like this one
      Norman helmet

      the helmet

      .
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    • EliSuperHero
      EliSuperHero removed this reply because:
      accident
      03:15, April 27, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • I assume gondorian armour would be the same as the one Pippin was wearing in lotr the return of the king?

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    • Yes.

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    • I Just think that it should stay the same. The plate armor looks just fine. Especially uruk hai and gondorians. just leave them be. If everything not mentioed were to be removed, might as well remove crossbows...

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    • EliSuperHero wrote:
      I Just think that it should stay the same. The plate armor looks just fine. Especially uruk hai and gondorians. just leave them be. If everything not mentioed were to be removed, might as well remove crossbows...

      crossbows were infact used by the rich during the danish invasion on estland by valdemar the victor. one was used by the founder of the hvide familie(he was an ansestor to absalon).

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    • Aran2 wrote:
      EliSuperHero wrote:
      I Just think that it should stay the same. The plate armor looks just fine. Especially uruk hai and gondorians. just leave them be. If everything not mentioed were to be removed, might as well remove crossbows...
      crossbows were infact used by the rich during the danish invasion on estland by valdemar the victor. one was used by the founder of the hvide familie(he was an ansestor to absalon).

      he was just giving an example, you know what he means, bc many things in the mod weren't mentioned in the books, for example a dalish pastry lol. most things are added to the mod to make it a bit realistic and more fun, more things to do besides storyline.

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    • and 1 important note, that in 1 happening in the books a few people have their armour described in detail does NOT mean they all have the same armour!

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    • But seeing as plate is never mentioned within the lore, it is uncanon. Meanwhile, chain mail is continuously mentioned, and even called the best armor in the world. So it stands to reason no one would have plate, if dwarf-mail is the best. And if aesthetics is what you're worrying about, don't. I made some textures and it looks great, some even better. 

      PS: I am also against crossbows, because it is stated the Uruk-hai used huge longbows and the Dwarves bows of horn.

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:
      But seeing as plate is never mentioned within the lore, it is uncanon. Meanwhile, chain mail is continuously mentioned, and even called the best armor in the world. So it stands to reason no one would have plate, if dwarf-mail is the best. And if aesthetics is what you're worrying about, don't. I made some textures and it looks great, some even better. 

      PS: I am also against crossbows, because it is stated the Uruk-hai used huge longbows and the Dwarves bows of horn.

      oh I'm not worrying, just checking if all what you say is true, but for some its not mentioned in the books what kind of armor they had, so maybe we can keep those the same as they are now

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    • A FANDOM user
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