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  • Southern Mirkwood was the southern part of Mirkwood and surrounding the fastness of Dol Guldur.

    Block

    Dol Guldur pillars are needed, since there are Angmar Pillars already.

    Structures

    • Dol Guldur Towers: They should generate here as S.Mirkwood was the land of the Necromancer, meaning you can hire troops at here.
    • Ruined Wood-Elven Towers: The Mirkwood have previously been called Greenwood the Great, and Dol Guldur was originally known as Amon Lanc. Southern Mirkwood was greatly under the control of the Dark Lord, those ruins still witnessed the glorious days of Woodland Realm.
    • Spider's webs: There are structures generating in the branches of both Mirkwood and South Mirkwood. There aren't a single web, but hundreds of spider-webs connected forming a huge network like what did spiders do in The Hobbit. Although this structure doesn't need to add right now, it should be added sooner or later.
      • By the way, since I mentioned the webs, the height of Mirkwood trees also should be heightened, spiders that fell from trees incidentally were dead in The Hobbit.

    Mobs

    But at the end of the Third Age a troll-race not before seen appeared in southern Mirkwood and in the mountain borders of Mordor. Olog-hai they were called in the Black Speech.

    The Lord of the Rings, Appendix F

    According to the quote above, Olog-hai which are Mirk-trolls in the mod do spawn here. As Gandalf reminded Bilbo that before one could get round it in the South, he would get into the land of the Necromancer, most of the creatures of Dol Guldur (Dol Guldur Orcs, Spiders, Olog-hai of Mirkwood) should spawn here. The spawn rate may be slightly lower than its in Dol Guldur, or maybe not. Here are two solutions:

    • The spawn rate of Southern Mirkwood will be sightly lower than Dol Guldur.
      • I'm not sure about this, since Dol Guldur is already less challenge than other evil realms to me, even Angmar.
    • The spawn rate of S.Mirkwood will be same as current D.Guldur, increasing the spawn rate of Dol Guldur.
      • I prefer this one. Since towers will generate here and the spawn rate will be same, I promote that Mevans should decrease the size of Dol Guldur to its original size before beta 25.

    I also suggest several new mobs and the reason to add them will be stated in following paragraphs.

    New Mobs

    • Dol Guldur Orc Bombardier: Free People of Middle-earth may doubt this unit, but it is a part of greater plan that I will mention below. Dol Guldur Orc Bombardiers are canon and more lore-friendly that Angmar Orc Bombardiers. During the Battle Under the Trees, the woods are set alight, thus there is a "great ruin of fire". Currently, there is no way that the mobs of Dol Guldur to set anything alight. In the book the legion of Dol Guldur tried to invade the Golden Wood, and they caused much destruction in the bolder of the Wood. However, the current Dol Guldur invasions in Lothlórien edge can only cause casualties. Due to the reasons above, I suggest that there are some of Dol Guldur Orc Bombardiers should carry Orc Firebombs.
    • Spider Bombardier: This unit is an equivalent to Angmar Warg Bombardier, and it is also a part of great plan below. Spider Bombardiers are going to be interesting!

    Vegetation

    There lies the fastness of Southern Mirkwood. It is clad in a forest of dark fir, where the trees strive one against another and their branches rot and wither.

    –Haldir on The Fellowship of the Ring, Lothlórien

    • Dark Fir: Unlike the most part of Mirkwood, South Mirkwood was a forest of dark fir. The reduced size of Dol Guldur (its size will be back to Beta 24, and Southern Mirkwood will bear the same functions of it and an even larger domain) would be surrounded by dark fisr. Imagine the Bald Hill is towered in the forest of dark fir... What a magnificent image!

    Renaming

    I know that alter a name is easy, so Mevans please lift a finger...

    • Mirk-troll --> Olog-hai, Mirkwood Olog-hai or Olog-hai of Mirkwood. Similarly, current Olog-hai could be renamed as Mordor Olog-hai for distinguish.
    • Mirkwood Corrupted -->Mirkwood: Seriously, Mirkwood is already a name of corruption. The Wood would be called Greenwood the Great if it wasn't corrupted.

    The Position of Dol Guldur and Angmar

    Beside Southern Mirkwood, this part is kind of the most important one in the entire suggestion.

    Then so utterly was Angmar defeated that not a man nor an orc of that realm remained west of the Mountains.

    They (Éothéod) sought more room in the North, and drove away the remnants of the people of Angmar on the east side of the Mountains.

    The Lord of the Rings, Appendix A

    Let's probe positions or roles those two factions:

    Angmar:
    Dol Guldur:
    • A DEAD faction with a DEAD sub-faction.
    • A alive powerful faction in the East.
    • They widely and commonly active or invade Eriador in the mod (a behavior that they which is a dead faction shouldn't have)
      • They invade biomes including Eriador, Eriador Downs, Lone-Lands, Midgewater, Minhiriath, Trollshaws, Coldfells, Ettenmoors... Even Lindon!)
    • They narrowly and rarely appear or invade Rhovanion (Wilderland, Brown Lands, Dead Marshes, East Bight, Emyn Muil, Erebor, Field of Celebrant, Gladden Fields; Grey Mountains, Iron Hills, Mirkwood, Vales of Anduin) in the mod
      • They only rarely invade biomes including Field of Celebrant Lothlorien Edge, Vales of Anduin and Woodland Realm according to the Invasion page.
    • They have a variety of invasion types, that actually increased the chance to meet them.
      • Their invasion types included ANGMAR, ANGMAR WARG, HILL-MEN.
    • They have only one invasion type.
    • So many of their invasion could occur at same time, and each invasion could summon a crowd of wargs, Orcs, hill-men...
      • How can a dead faction summon such crowded armies exactly!? I didn't take a screenshot, but anyone who has been to anywhere they may invade would know what am I talking about
    • Rarely happen
    • Like what I mentioned above, the army of Dol Duldur had "great ruin of fire" in the book. They just have nothing in the mod.

    You may think Dol Guldur is a dead faction, too. However, only ten years after these events Sauron, now based in Mordor, sent the Witch-king of Angmar and the other Nazgûl to secretly reoccupy Dol Guldur and begin amassing an army of Orcs and Easterlings there.

    My Solution

    Each sections are corresponding to the table above.

    Angmar:
    Dol Guldur:
    • Weaken/Nerf
      • There even should become the weakest faction in the mod since it doesn't really exist. Check your books or movies, there are lots of details talking about wars with Dol Guldur but no war with Angmar since thousands of years ago.
    • Strengthen
      • "In 3018 these attacked the Woodland Realm, as well as Dale, Erebor and Lórien", I know that the mod begins in 3001, but our alignment system is based on the War of Ring in 3018 (see Gondor, see Rohan). Thus slaying the spawns of Dol Guldur should also gain Durin's Folk and Dale's alignment, vice versa.
    • Just like Utumno, a dead faction makes no invasion.
      • Warg invasions may be okay, but can we make warg invasion without riders? That deviated my original suggestion on warg invasions and the reality...
      • Hill-men shouldn't invade Eriador and Lone-lands biomes because that is too aboveboard... Only Coldfells or Ettenmoors please.
    • Moreover, the mob spawning rate of Angmar is need to decrease, and this will fit in with both gameplay factors and canon: Evil are stronger in the East and weaker in the West. By the end of Third Age, Eriador including Lone-lands was a quite peaceful and safe land comparing Rhovanion. The main problems were trolls and Orcs of Misty Mountains.
    • They should widely and commonly active or invade entire Rhovanion including Wilderland, Brown Lands, Dead Marshes, East Bight, Emyn Muil, Erebor, Field of Celebrant, Gladden Fields; Grey Mountains, Iron Hills, Mirkwood, Vales of Anduin.
    • Some of them may be removed.
    • Let Mevans add Olog-hai (Mirkwood), Spiders invasion! It would be fun!
    • See solution above.
    • Rarely happen

    Hobbits were escaping from the growing terror of Dol Guldur in Vales of Anduin years ago. Plus Dol Guldur was expanding its power and searching the Ring, the size of invader's troops could be same as current insane invasion spawning rate in Lone-lands. Each Dol Guldur invasion could spawn a crowd with Gundabad in Vales of Anduin, Wilderland, etc.

    • Removed Angmar Orc Bombardiers
    • Removed Angmar warg Bombardiers
    • Added Dol Guldur Orc Bombardiers; they may carry Orc Firebombs.
    • Added Dol Guldur Spider Bombardiers; they may carry Orc Firebombs.

    As always, comments and constructive critiscism is welcome!

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    • Dol Guldur is not "An alive powerful faction in the East". It's dying - and thus shouldn't be strengthened beyond what it is now. Angmar, however, I agree should be reduced in power.

      Actually, perhaps Dol Guldur could do with a bit of strengthening, but nowhere near as much as you suggest.

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    • "In 3018 these attacked the Woodland Realm, as well as Dale, Erebor and Lórien", and lost each time.

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    • At least it was alive... When I ask for nerf some faction, I know that I must provide a possible solution to compensate for the sake of the gameplay balance....

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    • Maltalidenta Kwuitidherali wrote: "In 3018 these attacked the Woodland Realm, as well as Dale, Erebor and Lórien", and lost each time.

      However, the courses of battles above were reversed after Mordor defeated...

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    • You're asking for a major buff to Dol Guldur, and a fairly moderate nerf to Angmar. These do not cancel each other out.

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    • Wargaz cc wrote:

      Maltalidenta Kwuitidherali wrote: "In 3018 these attacked the Woodland Realm, as well as Dale, Erebor and Lórien", and lost each time.

      However, the courses of battles above were reversed after Mordor defeated...

      No, they weren't. Lothloriën survived three consecutive sieges with minimal losses, and the fact that Mordor was defeated only caused them to then go and defeat Dol Guldur. Thranduil's Realm had been holding out for many years before this - losing, I grant you. But they would've held out longer than Gondor and Rohan; which I count as an achievement.

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    • Well Elves do better on fight against Dol Guldur. But you see, the Kingdoms of Dale was captured, and the Dwarves of Erebor, retreated into the the Lonely Mountain, but lost Kings Brand and Dáin Ironfoot who were both slain at the Gate of Erebor...

      Except Lórien preserved by Nenya, Woodland Realm loss its most territories and its former capital (Amon Lanc) through the long fight. Those kingdoms just survival... So I count this as a proof of "An alive powerful faction in the East".

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    • Wargaz cc wrote: Well Elves do better on fight against Dol Guldur. But you see, the Kingdoms of Dale was captured, and the Dwarves of Erebor, retreated into the the Lonely Mountain, but lost Kings Brand and Dáin Ironfoot who were both slain at the Gate of Erebor...

      Except Lórien preserved by Nenya, Woodland Realm loss its most territories and its former capital (Amon Lanc) through the long fight. Those kingdoms just survival... So I count this as a proof of "An alive powerful faction in the East".

      It is due to the power of the Elves that it was dying. In an attempt to destroy the three of them; it failed. It over exerted itself, and now it is paying the price. However, I must admit that since this is set just before these things happened, it is rather at the peak of its power - but still a fair bit less than you convey.

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    • Well, actually every enhancement I convey is from current features of Angmar... except firebombs, though since they are already existed in the mod, it will be better if there are some factions using them, and they fit the descriptions of Dol Guldur weapons: "great ruin of fire" and causing much destruction. I just thought it would be cool if this will be implemented on a few bombardier... If everyone are disagree with it, I can remove it.

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    • Wargaz cc wrote: Well, actually every enhancement I convey is from current features of Angmar... except firebombs, though since they are already existed in the mod, it will be better if there are some factions using them, and they fit the descriptions of Dol Guldur weapons: "great ruin of fire" and causing much destruction. I just thought it would be cool if this will be implemented on a few bombardier... If everyone are disagree with it, I can remove it.

      I'm merely pointing out that if everything removed from Angmar was put onto Dol Guldur in this suggestion, they'd still have a fair bit less power than you claim.

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    • Spiders carrying firebombs would be more overpowered then Wargs carrying them, in any case. Evil would flock to Dôl Guldur because Mirkwood Spiders can climb up any vertical surface. Imagine that scenario as a Good player; your fortress is attacked and destroyed because they could climb your walls, no problem. Dôl Guldur would automatically become the most powerful faction. If you give all these buffs(which, by-the-by, Dôl Guldur invades the Woodland Realm quite often) then you'll have to buff Lórien, Thranduil's Realm, Dale, and possibly even Erebor/Iron Hills to counter this.

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    • Okay, I just thought that would be fun to deal with them... I removed them already.

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    • Also a great ruin of fire doesn't mean Orc bombs! The place they invade is made of WOOD! You don't need bombs to destroy WOOD! you could use normal torches. Touches should be able to start fires, and then BOOM! you have your "canon" source sorta gone, sorry if it seems a bit harsh, but that's what probably happened. We only really saw saruman having bombs.

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    • Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote: You'll have to buff Lórien, Thranduil's Realm, Dale, and possibly even Erebor/Iron Hills to counter this.

      But this isn't a bad thing.xD

      I consider that there should be more powerful Free People and greater evil from Shire the fresh village in gameplay level, and this pattern could motivate players to travel further.

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    • TheblueWizard wrote: Also a great ruin of fire doesn't mean Orc bombs! The place they invade is made of WOOD! You don't need bombs to destroy WOOD! you could use normal torches. Touches should be able to start fires, and then BOOM! you have your "canon" source sorta gone, sorry if it seems a bit harsh, but that's what probably happened. We only really saw saruman having bombs.

      That really because Angmar has them, and they even more impossible to have bomb than Dol Guldur... And we are talking about Rhovanion which are not just made up by Mirkwood, also including Wilderlands and Vales of Anduin...

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    • Wargaz cc wrote:

      TheblueWizard wrote: Also a great ruin of fire doesn't mean Orc bombs! The place they invade is made of WOOD! You don't need bombs to destroy WOOD! you could use normal torches. Touches should be able to start fires, and then BOOM! you have your "canon" source sorta gone, sorry if it seems a bit harsh, but that's what probably happened. We only really saw saruman having bombs.

      That really because Angmar has them, and they even more impossible to have bomb than Dol Guldur... And we are talking about Rhovanion which are not just made up by Mirkwood, also including Wilderlands and Vales of Anduin...

      I'm sorry if I sound mean again, but if something is illogical, that means we should make something else still illogical because it is a bit less illogical that the other thing? That is just not logical, and if we want to make it logical, we should logically just take away the illogical bombs from this illogical angmar!

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    • TheblueWizard wrote:
      Also a great ruin of fire doesn't mean Orc bombs! The place they invade is made of WOOD! You don't need bombs to destroy WOOD! you could use normal torches. Touches should be able to start fires, and then BOOM! you have your "canon" source sorta gone, sorry if it seems a bit harsh, but that's what probably happened. We only really saw saruman having bombs.

      Actually I don't remember the books saying anything about even Saruman having bombs... Never read the appendecies though.

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    • Saruman did have the "Fire of Orthanc", high explosives which were used to break into the Hornburg. He's the only one specifically mentioned having it, though.

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    • Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote:
      Saruman did have the "Fire of Orthanc", high explosives which were used to break into the Hornburg. He's the only one specifically mentioned having it, though.

      Oh yeah...

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    • No, Mordor used them to blast breaches in the Rammas Echor.

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    • Enough valuable proposal content for a kudo. Enough valuable feedback from the others to silence me. :)

      Edit: The preceding statement is false. XD

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    • Excellent, I agree with AlteOgre that you have succeeded in creating a concrete proposal. I particularly fond of your proposed shift of power from Angmar to Dol Guldur as this seems more realistic when the events of the War of the Ring are considered. Although, I am not certain if I will enjoy Mirkwood Spider Bombardiers quite as much :)

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    • Thank you Wargaz cc!!!!!!!

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    • The fire bomb bombarider part is good!

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    • It's only good to you because you only play as Evil, Deadly Forest.

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    • Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote:
      It's only good to you because you only play as Evil, Deadly Forest.

      Come on! I was once a great men of the North, but later I see throught the lies of elves and men, so I turned!

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    • I'm sorry, Deadly Forest, but it almost seems like you only support changes which help you. You always seem to jump up for a pro-evil suggestion (usually adding some experience of slaughter as evidence), yet rarely support suggestions supporting evil (at least without demanding compensation or claiming that Good is OP).

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    • True!

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    • How about we get some sort of compensation for the warg bombardiers you want to get rid of ao much? Don't say Easterlings, because any evil player knows firsthand that replacing a great unit with a bunch of crappy ones isn't nearly as good as it sounds to the inconsiderate good players. Let us not forget what happened with the Angmar Orc Warriors...

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    • Deadly Forest wrote: True!

      That was against you...

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    • The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:
      How about we get some sort of compensation for the warg bombardiers you want to get rid of ao much? Don't say Easterlings, because any evil player knows firsthand that replacing a great unit with a bunch of crappy ones isn't nearly as good as it sounds to the inconsiderate good players. Let us not forget what happened with the Angmar Orc Warriors...

      Yeah, what about their OP-ass Elven/Dwarven cavalry...

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    • Well,a strengthened Dol Guldur faction would be nice, as I run into a lot of invasions from Angmar,Mordor or Gundabad except Dol Guldur when I travel around the MiddleEarth, including Mirkwood. Does Dol Guldur orcs just stay in their coach and watch TV? It does not seem right when compared to the book. They are actually very active and powerful, or anyway they should be more powerful than Angmar, which has been deserted for a long time. To be realistic, it is welcomed if Dol Guldur could stand out and take more part in the game, or at least more invasions. Better if they are more widely spawned rather than a small island in that forest.

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    • The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote: How about we get some sort of compensation for the warg bombardiers you want to get rid of ao much? Don't say Easterlings, because any evil player knows firsthand that replacing a great unit with a bunch of crappy ones isn't nearly as good as it sounds to the inconsiderate good players. Let us not forget what happened with the Angmar Orc Warriors...

      True. As the proposer, I am actually a player of Free Folks, but I didn't expect that there are so many objections from other good players... I just thought Free People would think that spider fire bombardiers are gonna be fun...

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    • Just think about it.

      You're sitting in your fortified base, when a Dol Guldur invasion starts outside.

      'I'm safe in here' you think.

      But then you hear a 'Boom!'

      A spider has climbed over your wall, and exploded behind you. Then your base gets flooded with Dol Guldur troops because they have breached your wall.

      Pleasant thought, isn't it?

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    • If anything needs to be nerfed it's the Elves, taking on entire armies with a few units for example.

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    • Except for Elves are supposed to be able to do that, because that's what they could do.

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    • Rayn Turammarth wrote: Just think about it.

      But explosion only will casue health damage when there is banner protection. It's nothing compared to my two Ranger Watchtowers were exploded by Angmar Warg bombardiers in Lone-lands in the End of Third Age! As lease Dol Guldur has that possibility and I would prepare for it!

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    • Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote:
      Except for Elves are supposed to be able to do that, because that's what they could do.

      Really? I could hire troops worth five times more, and they'd still get destroyed by OP elves.

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    • Elves are meant to be OP... They're Elves. You know, the bad(expletive) warriors of the First Age?

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    • Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote:
      Elves are meant to be OP... They're Elves. You know, the bad(expletive) warriors of the First Age?

      They've fallen a lot from what they once were.

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    • The Indomitable wrote:

      Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote:
      Elves are meant to be OP... They're Elves. You know, the bad(expletive) warriors of the First Age?

      They've fallen a lot from what they once were.

      Have they? Can you give me an example of Elves falling from what they once were?

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    • Rayn Turammarth wrote:

      The Indomitable wrote:

      Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote:
      Elves are meant to be OP... They're Elves. You know, the bad(expletive) warriors of the First Age?
      They've fallen a lot from what they once were.
      Have they? Can you give me an example of Elves falling from what they once were?

      First of all, they're way fewer, a lot of the more impressive ones left, adn they've been decidedly isolationist.

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    • So there are less of them? That means little; as the other reasons are complete rubbish.

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    • The Indomitable wrote:

      Rayn Turammarth wrote:

      The Indomitable wrote:

      Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote:
      Elves are meant to be OP... They're Elves. You know, the bad(expletive) warriors of the First Age?
      They've fallen a lot from what they once were.
      Have they? Can you give me an example of Elves falling from what they once were?

      First of all, they're way fewer, a lot of the more impressive ones left, adn they've been decidedly isolationist.

      Yes, but remember Elves are immortal and their departures are their own choices. Men are mortal and those impressive ones are gone forever.

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    • The Nazgûl were sent to reoccupy Dol Guldur a little before the mod starts. By the time of the War of the Ring, it was likely stronger than Isengard. Lothlorien only withstood three attacks because of Nenya, that much is made clear, but it also shows that Dol Guldur (and Moria) are strong enough to be able to send out three armies large enough to make it seem like the whole forest was under siege, while attacking Thranduil at the same time. Dol Guldur was growing stronger. Spider-kamikazes might be a bit much, but Orc Bombardiers with firebombs is not only remotely canon, but also an idea that would give Dol Guldur something worth the trek.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 10:09, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

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    • The Indomitable wrote:

      The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:
      How about we get some sort of compensation for the warg bombardiers you want to get rid of ao much? Don't say Easterlings, because any evil player knows firsthand that replacing a great unit with a bunch of crappy ones isn't nearly as good as it sounds to the inconsiderate good players. Let us not forget what happened with the Angmar Orc Warriors...

      Yeah, what about their OP-ass Elven/Dwarven cavalry...

      Or their lightning fast Rohirric cavalry?

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    • Wargaz cc wrote:

      The Indomitable wrote:

      Rayn Turammarth wrote:

      The Indomitable wrote:

      Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote:
      Elves are meant to be OP... They're Elves. You know, the bad(expletive) warriors of the First Age?
      They've fallen a lot from what they once were.
      Have they? Can you give me an example of Elves falling from what they once were?

      First of all, they're way fewer, a lot of the more impressive ones left, adn they've been decidedly isolationist.

      Yes, but remember Elves are immortal and their departures are their own choices. Men are mortal and those impressive ones are gone forever.

      *Aragorn*
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    • The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:
      How about we get some sort of compensation for the warg bombardiers you want to get rid of ao much? Don't say Easterlings, because any evil player knows firsthand that replacing a great unit with a bunch of crappy ones isn't nearly as good as it sounds to the inconsiderate good players. Let us not forget what happened with the Angmar Orc Warriors...

      Idk, Wainrider Chariots and Mumakil (I know it's Harad) seem ok compensation imo...

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    • The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:

      The Indomitable wrote:

      The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:
      How about we get some sort of compensation for the warg bombardiers you want to get rid of ao much? Don't say Easterlings, because any evil player knows firsthand that replacing a great unit with a bunch of crappy ones isn't nearly as good as it sounds to the inconsiderate good players. Let us not forget what happened with the Angmar Orc Warriors...
      Yeah, what about their OP-ass Elven/Dwarven cavalry...
      Or their lightning fast Rohirric cavalry?

      They spawn everywhere...

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    • Gen. Grievous1138 wrote: The Nazgûl were sent to reoccupy Dol Guldur a little before the mod starts. By the time of the War of the Ring, it was likely stronger than Isengard. Lothlorien only withstood three attacks because of Nenya, that much is made clear, but it also shows that Dol Guldur (and Moria) are strong enough to be able to send out three armies large enough to make it seem like the whole forest was under siege, while attacking Thranduil at the same time. Dol Guldur was growing stronger. Spider-kamikazes might be a bit much, but Orc Bombardiers with firebombs is not only remotely canon, but also an idea that would give Dol Guldur something worth the trek.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 10:09, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

      You estimate too cheaply the bows and swords of the Galadhrim, I think... Nenya is not the only ward of the forest, and perhaps not even the most powerful.

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    • Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote: The Nazgûl were sent to reoccupy Dol Guldur a little before the mod starts. By the time of the War of the Ring, it was likely stronger than Isengard. Lothlorien only withstood three attacks because of Nenya, that much is made clear, but it also shows that Dol Guldur (and Moria) are strong enough to be able to send out three armies large enough to make it seem like the whole forest was under siege, while attacking Thranduil at the same time. Dol Guldur was growing stronger. Spider-kamikazes might be a bit much, but Orc Bombardiers with firebombs is not only remotely canon, but also an idea that would give Dol Guldur something worth the trek.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 10:09, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

      You estimate too cheaply the bows and swords of the Galadhrim, I think... Nenya is not the only ward of the forest, and perhaps not even the most powerful.

      "Nenya" was the only reason the forest was even able to exist. After the three rings "died", the land went into decline, and by the time Arwen went there begore dying, it was completely dried out and dead. So it is, in fact, the most powerful defense.

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    • The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote: "Nenya" was the only reason the forest was even able to exist. After the three rings "died", the land went into decline, and by the time Arwen went there begore dying, it was completely dried out and dead. So it is, in fact, the most powerful defense.

      Indeed, it is said that MellyrnTrees were only able grow under the power of Nenya in Lórien and would not take root elsewhere, not even in the fair lands of Lindon.

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    • Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote:

      Nenya is not the only ward of the forest, and perhaps not even the most powerful.

      Myself as a Galadhrim player, it is a common knowledge is that Nenya was the truly ward of Lothlorien.

      You estimate too cheaply the bows and swords of the Galadhrim,

      Quite the opposite, even the Lady of the Light said:

      But do not think that only by singing amid the trees, nor even by the slender arrows of elven-bows, is this land of Lothlórien maintained and defended against its Enemy. [...] This is Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, and I am its keeper.

      –Galadriel on The Fellowship of the Ring, The Mirror of Galadriel

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    • The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:

      Faenor of the Silver Laurel wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote: The Nazgûl were sent to reoccupy Dol Guldur a little before the mod starts. By the time of the War of the Ring, it was likely stronger than Isengard. Lothlorien only withstood three attacks because of Nenya, that much is made clear, but it also shows that Dol Guldur (and Moria) are strong enough to be able to send out three armies large enough to make it seem like the whole forest was under siege, while attacking Thranduil at the same time. Dol Guldur was growing stronger. Spider-kamikazes might be a bit much, but Orc Bombardiers with firebombs is not only remotely canon, but also an idea that would give Dol Guldur something worth the trek.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 10:09, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

      You estimate too cheaply the bows and swords of the Galadhrim, I think... Nenya is not the only ward of the forest, and perhaps not even the most powerful.

      "Nenya" was the only reason the forest was even able to exist. After the three rings "died", the land went into decline, and by the time Arwen went there begore dying, it was completely dried out and dead. So it is, in fact, the most powerful defense.

      The elves of Lorien were skilled, but only one of the Three Rings could have held back such a storm.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 20:08, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

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    • I seem to see that there are few prominant elven players/contributors who are refusing to accept changes to enemies of elven factions....

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    • Me? I'm fine with it!

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    • no not you, some other ones. your fine, notice the lack of names being mentioned.

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    • You better not be referring to me...

      I'm fine with everything here, except Spider Bombadiers.

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    • Yeah, if good players want to remove an entire evil faction, and cripple it. Why don't all the OP-ass cavalry for Elves, and Dwarves be removed, and Rohan rider spawning nerfed a ton?

      (Different thread, but same concept.)

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    • Dol Guldur pillars are also needed, since there are Angmar Pillars already.

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    • Deadly Forest wrote: Come on! I was once a great men of the North, but later I see throught the lies of elves and men, so I turned!

      Would you tell me about that "the lies of elves and men"? Come on. You were just taking advantage from that Angmar and Dol Guldur weren't direct aligned with Mordor, cheating on both Rangers of the North, Elves, Dwarves and Mordor. When you do something bad, please don't find a highfalutin reason blaming others and bluffing that you are innocent.

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    • Wargaz cc wrote:
      Dol Guldur pillars are also needed, since there are Angmar Pillars already.

      What do you mean? There already are Dol Guldur Towers and Stone Ruins of Dol Guldur Brick.

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    • I believe Wargaz cc is in fact referring to a pillar variant of Dol Guldur Brick, as opposed to some form of standing stone.

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    • Ah, I see ... lol ... had a long day at work, sorry.

      - blushes -

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    • AlteOgre wrote: Ah, I see ... lol ... had a long day at work, sorry.

      - blushes -

      Not to worry, much can slip ones mind during the evening...

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    • War Pig1237 wrote:

      AlteOgre wrote: Ah, I see ... lol ... had a long day at work, sorry.

      - blushes -

      Not to worry, much can slip ones mind during the evening...

      I  feel as if that is referring to not doing homework...?

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    • Rayn Turammarth wrote:

      War Pig1237 wrote:

      AlteOgre wrote: Ah, I see ... lol ... had a long day at work, sorry.

      - blushes -

      Not to worry, much can slip ones mind during the evening...

      I  feel as if that is referring to not doing homework...?

      Not quite, I was referring to making grammatical errors...

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    • War Pig1237 wrote:

      Rayn Turammarth wrote:

      War Pig1237 wrote:

      AlteOgre wrote: Ah, I see ... lol ... had a long day at work, sorry.

      - blushes -

      Not to worry, much can slip ones mind during the evening...

      I  feel as if that is referring to not doing homework...?

      Not quite, I was referring to making grammatical errors...

      Sorry, I dn't get it...

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    • I have not looked at all of the comments, but I saw a few. I like the part about southern mirkwood, except instead of just adding the cover of webs, there should actually be spiders up there. This would make mirkwood much harder to traverse. What I really frown upon though is giving spiders a bomb on their backs. As a matter of fact, I think the whole bomb idea has been blown out of proportion, because like Faenor said, Saruman was the only one who had the equivalent of "orc bombs". If this was ever to be implemented though, I suggest you add either a lot of thin flying buttress or overlays on your walls to prevent the OP destruction of the spiders. Or just cut out the climbing effect of the spider bombadier.

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    • Saruman was the only one who had the equivalent of "orc bombs".

      Yes, Saruman was the only one who to be know to have orc bombs. and that's why the orc bombs of Mordor were described as explosive fire.

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    • No, explosive fire is what Saruman's bomb was called too. Mordor and Isengard both had explosives, and the whole "great ruin of fire" thing could be interpreted as explosive as well.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 11:29, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

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    • Angmar shouldn't have bombs, but Dol Guldur should. The idea of bombs are a fairly new invention around this time, and Angmar, a crippled and somewhat old faction, wouldn't have access to them, but Dol Guldur, a faction strengthened once again, could potentially have access.

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    • Agreed, although I would like Angmar to have some sort of unique thing or other.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 17:01, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

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    • Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:
      Agreed, although I would like Angmar to have some sort of unique thing or other.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 17:01, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

      Right now they have Snagae, and some weak Trolls...

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    • - points at this thread -

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    • Gen. Grievous1138 wrote: Agreed, although I would like Angmar to have some sort of unique thing or other.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 17:01, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

      Because trolls throwing rocks isn't unique? :P

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    • trolls throwing rocks isn't unique? :P

      It isn't! look,rangers,elves and hobbits can use a range attack and a melee attack just like the troll

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    • Alrighty, One, I dont see why Dol Guldur needs a boost and Angmar needs a debuff? Angmar is completly fine and I think Dol Guldur doesnt need anything else. Dol Guldur has Trolls that dont turn into stone in the daylight! Angmar is completly fine, and it is not dead! If it were, then I think it would just bring a "disadvantage" to the mod. This is because you are making only ONE faction less powerful and making one stronger. May I remind you that the Necromancer no longer lives in Dol Guldur, and was soon destroyed, making it a DEAD faction as well. 

      So basically, the faction your wanting to get stronger is also a DEAD Faction. We also dont know when this mod takes place so, you can consider Dol Guldur to also be a DEAD faction. 

      Alignment angmar Lord Urukgoth, The Orc King of Angmar Alignment angmar (Send me some Blades) 20:24, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

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    • Did I mention they also have Wargs and Spiders? Spiders that can climb while wargs can run? 

      Alignment angmar Lord Urukgoth, The Orc King of Angmar Alignment angmar (Send me some Blades) 20:27, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

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    • I also disagree with Angmar being the weakest faction in the mod, because then there is no point for anyone to even join the faction in the first place. If you remove lots of things from Angmar then its technically just in the way of bringing better things in the mod. 

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    • @ Calbeius: Check this thread for the timing of the mod.

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    • Calbeius, you forget that Sauron sent Khamûl to rule Dol Guldur on behalf of Mordor, so Dol Guldur would be a very live faction. Angmar is dead, and so is Arnor. The only thing left is the remains that have managed to survive for over 1,000 years. Although I would also like to see Angmar get something unique. Gundabad has great wargs, Dol Guldur has spiders and trolls, and Mordor has... everything it deserves, to say the least.

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    • The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote: Calbeius, you forget that Sauron sent Khamûl to rule Dol Guldur on behalf of Mordor, so Dol Guldur would be a very live faction. Angmar is dead, and so is Arnor. The only thing left is the remains that have managed to survive for over 1,000 years. Although I would also like to see Angmar get something unique. Gundabad has great wargs, Dol Guldur has spiders and trolls, and Mordor has... everything it deserves, to say the least.

      wraiths! http://lotrminecraftmod.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:223789

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    • Calbeius or Urukgoth wrote: I also disagree with Angmar being the weakest faction in the mod, because then there is no point for anyone to even join the faction in the first place. If you remove lots of things from Angmar then its technically just in the way of bringing better things in the mod.

      Your previous argument was refuted by AlteOgre and The Lord of Minas Morgul, so I only explain this one.

      To me, that is moderate way to deal with Angmar. Angmar should be ruined like other dead faction such as Númenor, Arnor. There should be no player in those factions. You can claim youself as a King of Angmar, but the factions don't really exist. The roles of those dead factions are mostly historic background in The Lord of the Rings. However, the there are some Angmar players already, we don't make you unpleasant. Live factions like Easterlings at this time have a large population, I think those factions deserved more players.

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    • Spectualar work!

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    • Here's how the Angmar/Arnor situation would work:

      Angmar: Ruins, camps, and no organization. Any Orcs there are leaderless, most likely mixed with Gundabad Orcs, left over from a previous age with their Wargs. The "advantage" they have is Trolls, which sadly turn to stone or explode in the sun.

      Arnor: Ruins, camps, and little organization. The soldiers were entirely replaced by the rangers. They have a leader, and the rangers are skilled, but if they were to face entire armies, they would fail quickly.

      Also, Easterlings are unpopular because at the moment, they don't even exist.

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    • The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:

      Easterlings are unpopular because at the moment, they don't even exist.

      Are you kidding? Easterlings in Third Age enter the history in T.A.490. 17 years after the mod started, there were almost one million Eatertings attack Dale which was Battle of Dale. They were humans, so how can nearly one million people birthed from nowhere in 17 years?

      Edit: I see. You mean the mod. I mean there will be a faction for evil players.

      Also, Angmar should be unpopular because they don't exist anymore and the remnants of Angmar in this period are far-fetched. Arnor are destroyed and ruined but the Rangers of the North are well-known and the Grey Company are the best Mannish elite at this time. Since the reason I mentioned below, I won't suggest to remove the faction.

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    • Please do not use other Threads to draw attention to your own proposals.

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    • War Pig1237 wrote:

      Please do not use other Threads to draw attention to your own proposals.

      kk

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    • Wargaz cc wrote:

      The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote:

      Easterlings are unpopular because at the moment, they don't even exist.

      Are you kidding? Easterlings in Third Age enter the history in T.A.490. 17 years after the mod started, there were almost one million Eatertings attack Dale which was Battle of Dale. They were humans, so how can nearly one million people birthed from nowhere in 17 years?

      Edit: I see. You mean the mod. I mean there will be a faction for evil players.

      Also, Angmar should be unpopular because they don't exist anymore and the remnants of Angmar in this period are far-fetched. Arnor are destroyed and ruined but the Rangers of the North are well-known and the Grey Company are the best Mannish elite at this time. Since the reason I mentioned below, I won't suggest to remove the faction.

      I want easterlings! My skin is an easterling!

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    • I like this idea! Dol Guldur should be stronger!

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    • War Pig1237 wrote:

      Please do not use other Threads to draw attention to your own proposals.

      Why?

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    • @MysteryFTW: It is inappropriate in case the subjects do not relate.

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    • I was reffering to the post before mine? About Angmar needing a special mob?

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    • AlteOgre
      AlteOgre removed this reply because:
      Unneeded post. Beware of not creating too many posts that don't add to a discussion. You're walking a thin line.
      14:30, April 16, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • I hope not...

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    • Boaz is right. We should make the mod 'deeper' rather than 'wider', and this kind of posts are what we could make the mod deeper

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    • 83.217.10.15 wrote:
      Boaz is right. We should make the mod 'deeper' rather than 'wider', and this kind of posts are what we could make the mod deeper

      Agreed.

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    • Boaz would know, too. He is Mevans's evil twin brother.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 23:05, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

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    • Gen. Grievous1138 wrote: Boaz would know, too. He is Mevans's evil twin brother.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 23:05, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

      Wow, so Boaz is Mevans's twin brother?

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    • Do not trust him. He is evil! He even gets into Mevans's wiki account!

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 10:21, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

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    • But why? He made a pretty fair point and everyone agree with him. xD

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    • I think all the orcish factions shoukd be allied as they all served Sauron in a broad sense to keep people from being enemies and friends to orcs at the same time.

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    • I think this is a solid suggestion. However bombardiers wouldn't really be cannon. To be completely honest only is engaged used Orc bombs, and Angmar and Gundabad probably didn't use bombs, neither most likely did Mordor. Aside from that I like the idea. I think Olof hai invasions might be to much, however spider invasions wouldn't only be cool but completely canon. Also maybe spiders can be given a speechbank. I think that would be really need, as in the hobbit they did talk.

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    • Mordor did use them. But I find it unlikely that Dol Guldur would, and impossible that Angmar would.

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    • High King Ithilion wrote: Mordor did use them. But I find it unlikely that Dol Guldur would, and impossible that Angmar would.

      I would think the last people to have them would be gundabad

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    • No, the last people would be Angmar. Gundabad is made up of deserters from Mordor, Angmar, and Dol Guldur alongside other orcs from the Misty Mountains themselves, so it's sort of likely that some Orc from Mordor copped a bomb before ditching his post. But since Dol Guldur at this time was effectively an outpost of Mordor, they likely had a few bombs just in case.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 00:28, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

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    • @GG

      Can you replay me on your message wall pls??

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    • Sent it to Mevans.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 00:36, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

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    • Did you watched the video yet?

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    • Yes, and I have informed the mod team. Thank you for reporting.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (admin) comlink 10:37, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

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    • Agmar should be nerft as thay are a dead faction logicly thay should not even have invations

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    • 73.15.43.134 wrote:
      Agmar should be nerft as thay are a dead faction logicly thay should not even have invations

      Just like good to have such a useless argument... They Balance Stuff...

      And don't get into balancing on here. Do it here: http://lotrminecraftmod.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:235473

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    • 73.15.43.134 wrote: Agmar should be nerft as thay are a dead faction logicly thay should not even have invations

      This is exactly my point of the suggestion.

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    • LOTRGuy wrote:

      73.15.43.134 wrote:
      Agmar should be nerft as thay are a dead faction logicly thay should not even have invations

      They Balance Stuff...

      That is exactly my point of the suggestion. Because of balance, I mentioned a stronger Dol Guldur.

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    • TheblueWizard wrote:
      Also a great ruin of fire doesn't mean Orc bombs! The place they invade is made of WOOD! You don't need bombs to destroy WOOD! you could use normal torches. Touches should be able to start fires, and then BOOM! you have your "canon" source sorta gone, sorry if it seems a bit harsh, but that's what probably happened. We only really saw saruman having bombs.

      i just think that there should be regular bomber orcs in dol guldur. it wont be too much to handle since they don't cause damage to blocks. it would be quite fun to fight against dol guldur with regular orc bombardiers actually. I mean, if angmar can have them, which they shouldn't because theoretically they would be too far away and too isolated and too primitive to learn new technology from isengard or mordor. But, there shouldnt be spider bombardiers or orcs with fire bombs. Now thats too much. But with orcs in dul guldur with bombs I relish the challenge.

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    • EliSuperHero wrote:

      TheblueWizard wrote:
      Also a great ruin of fire doesn't mean Orc bombs! The place they invade is made of WOOD! You don't need bombs to destroy WOOD! you could use normal torches. Touches should be able to start fires, and then BOOM! you have your "canon" source sorta gone, sorry if it seems a bit harsh, but that's what probably happened. We only really saw saruman having bombs.

      i just think that there should be regular bomber orcs in dol guldur. it wont be too much to handle since they don't cause damage to blocks. it would be quite fun to fight against dol guldur with regular orc bombardiers actually. I mean, if angmar can have them, which they shouldn't because theoretically they would be too far away and too isolated and too primitive to learn new technology from isengard or mordor. But, there shouldnt be spider bombardiers or orcs with fire bombs. Now thats too much. But with orcs in dul guldur with bombs I relish the challenge.

      That could be a question for Mevans to answer. After all, there are Easy, Normal, and Hard Difficulties built in Minecraft.

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    • A FANDOM user
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