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  • Hello there! It is once more time for a major suggestion. This time, my focus is on the soldiers of Saruman: the Uruk-hai of Isengard. Currently, Isengard is a fun faction to play as. But as many will point out, there is a bit of imbalance, and I also think there is more that can be done to make the faction unique.

    Biomes

    To start, Nan Curunír should have no or very few living trees. Actual, living trees would be a rare sight, rarer than charred trees in Mordor. However, charred trees could be slightly more common, as with stumps or rotted logs. In addition, cave systems should be larger and more frequent here, if possible, as should ravines. New structures and spawning would be added, as well.

    The Uruk Highlands are a common point of debate. However, I do not think they need to be entirely removed. However, Uruk-hai should be less common here, and their structures should be removed save for occasional camps, though destroyed Rohirric structures should retain their current frequency.

    In addition, I suggest a new biome: the Gap of Rohan. This would replace the stretch of Enedwaith immediately west of the Isen, and would be similar to Enedwaith terrain-wise, though it would be Isengard-controlled. Uruk mobs would spawn fairly commonly, and Uruk structures would spawn at the current rate the generate in the Uruk Highlands. Wargs and Warg-riders should be exceptionally common here.

    Crafting

    The following would now be crafted on the Isengard crafting table.

    • Isengard Scout Armor - Crafted with a Rohirric mix of Uruk Steel and leather, Isengard Scout Armor would give iron-level protection and would be used by Uruk Scouts. The armor would look similar to a lighter version of the current Uruk armor. The helmets would have splotches of white (in the shape of an s-rune, if that can work).
    • Isengard Bow - Crafted with one Uruk Steel, two sticks, and three string. The crafting pattern would be the normal bow pattern, but with the Uruk steel ingot replacing the stick on the far left. Isengard bows would have range second only to the Dalish Longbow, fairly high damage, and a fairly slow draw-speed.
    • Isengard Captain Helmet - Crafted like the Uruk Berserker helmet, but replacing the bonemeal with another Uruk Steel ingot. Isengard captains would wear them, and they would look like normal Isengard helmets with a wider crest.
    • Nan Curunír Guard Armor - This armor would be crafted with regular iron on the Isengard crafting table. It would give iron-level protection, and would look like a cross between the Isengard and Dunland armors.
    • Half-Orc Waraxe - This would be crafted by combining an Isengard Battleaxe with four Uruk Steel ingots. It would deal 10 damage and would otherwise function as a normal battleaxe.

    NPCs

    I’m going to start off with this before diving into the NPCs. What I tried here is to balance the faction and make it lore-accurate while keeping the feel of the current Isengard faction. As such, I have opted not to suggest the removal of the current Uruk-hai, crossbowers, or Uruk Berserkers, but rather make them different units that would be much more rare, and fill their roles with lore-accurate NPCs instead.

    • Isengard Snagae - Would have their health and size reduced to that of Mordor Snagae: 16 health and dwarf-size.
    • Isengard Warg-Riders - Uruk-hai should not ride wargs. That should be left to soldier-orcs. Isengard Warg-Riders would be a unique orc unit. Warg-riders would be like current Isengard Snagae, but would always use Isengard weapons, and Isengard armor would be twice as likely to be worn by them. The ranged variant would use Orc Bows.
    • Isengard Miners - New Snaga-type traders that would spawn in Isengard Mineshafts. The would use random mixes of armor and Uruk picks, and sell and buy along the same lines as Dwarven miners.
    • Isengard Uruk - New basic Uruk units. They would use Isengard armor and weapons, just like current Uruk-hai, but would have 20 health. They would replace Uruk-hai spawning in all biomes in which they currently spawn, at the current rates, save with reduced numbers in the Highlands and current Highlands numbers in the Gap of Rohan. The ranged variant would use Uruk Bows.
    • Isengard Uruk Warrior - These would be the current Uruk-hai: Uruk armor and weapons and 26 health. Uruk Warriors would spawn occasionally in Nan Curunír, the Uruk Highlands, the Fangorn Wasteland, and the Gap of Rohan. The ranged variant would use crossbows.
    • Isengard Uruk Scout - Uruk Warriors equipped with Uruk Scout armor. They switch between Isengard Uruk Cleavers and Uruk Bows. They would spawn in Nan Curunír, the Gap of Rohan, and would spawn in raids on Rohan itself. In addition, they would have a small speed buff.
    • Isengard Uruk Berserker - They would now only spawn in Nan Curunír, with no changes.
    • Isengard Captain - At this point, this should be both expected and straightforward. Captains are renamed chieftains, and now use Captain helmets.
    • Isengard Blacksmith - New traders that use Isengard armors without helmets and Blacksmith hammers. They sell Isengard gear and will buy materials. They spawn in Isengard Forge-Pits.
    • Nan Curunír Guard - New human units that spawn only in Nan Curunír. They would be Isengard-aligned Dunlendings using Nan Curunír Guard armor and Isengard weapons. They would be semi-uncommon, and as a result Dunlending civilians would be removed from the biome, and Dunlending Warriors would be a bit rarer. They are hireable, and would be the trusted men that Saruman kept at his gate.
    • Half-Orc - Half-Orcs are strong units, hybrids of humans and fighter-orcs. These would be of the type of the Squint-Eyed Southerner, and would have 25 health, a strength buff, iron weapons, and a mix of fur and leather armor. They would spawn in Nan Curunír and the Gap of Rohan uncommonly, and would rarely spawn in Dunland, and normal Enedwaith.
    • Half-Orc Berserker - These are the soldiers that cut down Théodred, the best of Isengard. They would use the same equipment as Isengard Berserkers, save with Half-Orc Waraxes. They would have 30 health, a strength buff, and a speed buff. They would only spawn in Nan Curunír and occasionally in the Gap of Rohan, and would be rare in either case. They would also be very expensive.

    Structures

    • Isengard Camp - You know how it works at this point. Camps now would have two sizes of camp: small camps, which would be the current ones and would generate in Nan Curunír and the Gap of Rohan, and large camps, which would be four small camps with additional structures that would generate in the same biomes. Small camps would remain the same, but with trader stalls. Large camps would have up to 16 tents (up to four of which are forge tents), a fire-pit, a trader stall, four farms, a crafting table, and a mess tent. Unlike Mordor Camps, there would not be a city variant. Captains would no longer spawn in either.
      • Tent - Normal tents should at least have 1-2 orc beds in them.
      • Trader Stall - Instead of being free-roaming, Isengard Uruk Traders would spawn in these. These would be little charred wood shacks, with a loot chest, a barrel of orc draught, an armor stand, and a sword rack.
      • Fire-pit - 3x3 campfires, complete with cut logs for benches, a chest, and a logpile.
      • Mess-tent - Large tents supported by four full wood beams, and containing a table with seats and food/drink for orcs. There would be barrels, furnaces, and chests along the walls.
    • Isengard Forge-Pit - Open-air, natural-style caves with large, lava-based forge contraptions featuring many Orc Forges, unsmelteries, fire, and furnaces. Isengard Blacksmiths would spawn here, and loot chests, crafting tables, and the like would be very common. These would only generate in Nan Curunír.
    • Isengard Mine - Deep, open-air, natural-looking pits crossed with wooden catwalks, and featuring winding mining tunnels down below. The entrance-foyer would have forges, while chests and miners would spawn throughout the tunnels. These would only generate in Nan Curunír.
    • Isengard Caverns - These would essentially be cities for Isengard. Isengard Caverns would be large, winding cave-systems, opening to the surface with ravines and expanding in several directions with tunnels. The main ravine would be crossed with rickety wooden bridges, which would join around various platforms. On the walls of the cavern shacks for Uruks would generate. Tunnels would lead off in various directions from the main cave, and would connect to forge-pits (similar to the standalone structures but completely underground), houses, armories, mines, towers, dungeons, warg pens and barracks. An Isengard Uruk Captain would spawn on the central platform. Most of the structure would be randomly generated and could possibly contain more than one central ravine. The bottoms of main ravines would have additional armor-stores and forges amongst piles of waste. These would only generate in Nan Curunír.
    • Isengard Watch-Tower - Rickety towers of charred wood. They would have three platforms supported on beams, similar to a far more ramshackle version of the Ranger Watchtower. These would contain Uruk Archers and Uruk Warrior Crossbowers, and would generate in Nan Curunír and the Gap of Rohan.
    • Isengard Fort - Structures built of Uruk Brick that generate in the Gap of Rohan only. These forts are fairly small and are similar to my suggested Mordor Forts. They feature Isengard Captains.
    • Isengard Wastepit - Pits that generate across Nan Curunír. They have piles of waste in them, and if possible should have colored smoke streaming out.

    Other

    Titles

    [Nan Curunír] - Get +100 Isengard alignment.

    [Isengard Uruk] - Get +100 Isengard alignment.

    [Isengard Scout] - Get +100 Isengard alignment.

    [Isengard Warg-Rider] - Get +100 Isengard alignment.

    [Isengard Uruk Warrior] - Get +100 Isengard alignment.

    [Nan Curunír Guard] - Get +200 Isengard alignment.

    [Half-Orc] - Get +200 Isengard alignment.

    [Half-Orc Berserker] - Get +200 Isengard alignment.

    Achievements

    [The Wolves of Isengard] - Kill an Isengard Warg-Rider.

    [Saruman’s Elite] - Kill an Isengard Uruk Warrior.

    [Hunter of the White Hand] - Equip a full set of Isengard Scout Armor.

    [The Wizard’s Scouts] - Kill an Isengard Scout.

    [The Men at the Gate] - Kill a Nan Curunír Guard.

    [Gatekeeper] - Equip a full set of Nan Curunír Guard Armor.

    [Goblin-Men] - Kill a Half-Orc.

    [Théodred’s Bane] - Kill a Half-Orc Berserker.

    Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:24, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

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    • Excellent, except the Gatekeeper achievement should be reserved for Bree, I think.

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    • Gandalfthegreatestwizard- EpicMithrandir wrote: Excellent, except the Gatekeeper achievement should be reserved for Bree, I think.

      Ah true. I'll think of a new one.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:41, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

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    • Awfully quiet here. Did I scare everyone off?

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 20:36, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

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    • Or just maybe next to no one disagrees with your ideas.

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    • Gandalfthegreatestwizard- EpicMithrandir wrote: Or just maybe next no one disagrees with your ideas.

      That would be a first, in my memory.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 21:25, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

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    • I like your ideas. I think people might just be afraid to disagree with you.

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    • Greyhound9721 wrote: I like your ideas. I think people might just be afraid to disagree with you.

      Which isn't a good thing tbh. People should post all the criticism they have. I may argue it, but it could improve stuff tbh.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 23:02, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

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    • Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Greyhound9721 wrote: I like your ideas. I think people might just be afraid to disagree with you.

      Which isn't a good thing tbh. People should post all the criticism they have. I may argue it, but it could improve stuff tbh.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 23:02, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

      I have no criticism. I have been waiting for an Isengard suggestion like this, and here it is! Kudos.

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    • Greyhound9721 wrote: I like your ideas. I think people might just be afraid to disagree with you.

      Didn't you leave the wiki?

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    • TheMaceOfSauron wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Greyhound9721 wrote: I like your ideas. I think people might just be afraid to disagree with you.

      Which isn't a good thing tbh. People should post all the criticism they have. I may argue it, but it could improve stuff tbh.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 23:02, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

      I have no criticism. I have been waiting for an Isengard suggestion like this, and here it is! Kudos.

      Thank you!

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 23:47, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

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    • I like it, especially with the new structures, as they would be both hard and very fun to loot!

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    • So the isenguard caverns would be like the goblin settlements but more open air?

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    • I like most of these suggestions-epsecially the decreased spawn rate of Uruks- but i think the Half-Orc berserkers are a little too strong with strength and a weapon that deals 10 damage. I think they should deal 8-10 damage(Uruk berserkers do 5-7 according to the wikia page) and have the speed buff only. I think the diversity from these changes would make fighting with and against Isengard more fun so thanks for the ideas.

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    • For reference:

      [Endorsed] Adorn, Isengard, and other things

      [Endorsed] Isengard Lore Additions

      [Endorsed] new Uruk types (and more) raiding Rohan

      Please ensure notions mentioned in your comprehensive suggestion that have been mentioned before in any of the linked threads are referred to properly.

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    • Half-orcs were different than Goblin-men

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    • TheMaceOfSauron
      TheMaceOfSauron removed this reply because:
      See next post
      10:18, May 3, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Sneaky184 wrote: I like most of these suggestions-epsecially the decreased spawn rate of Uruks- but i think the Half-Orc berserkers are a little too strong with strength and a weapon that deals 10 damage. I think they should deal 8-10 damage(Uruk berserkers do 5-7 according to the wikia page) and have the speed buff only. I think the diversity from these changes would make fighting with and against Isengard more fun so thanks for the ideas.

      That stat that Uruk Berserkers deal 5-7 is wrong. Uruk Berserkers use cleavers that do 8, one point better than the damage for the normal Uruk sword-type weapon. I did the same, but for a battleaxe.

      +First Anon: That's correct.

      +Second Anon: No, they weren't. Goblins in Tolkien's works are the same as Orcs, making goblin-men - which was only used by Hobbits to describe Half-Orcs in the books - Half-Orcs.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:11, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

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    • Have you done an Angmar one yet? Because I really wanna see what you will do with that because they currently get alignment from High Elves of Rivendell and Lindon, and from the Dunedain. Also Angmar orcs are very weak, so it's easy to grind alignment. I hope you can suggest something for this.

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    • Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Sneaky184 wrote: I like most of these suggestions-epsecially the decreased spawn rate of Uruks- but i think the Half-Orc berserkers are a little too strong with strength and a weapon that deals 10 damage. I think they should deal 8-10 damage(Uruk berserkers do 5-7 according to the wikia page) and have the speed buff only. I think the diversity from these changes would make fighting with and against Isengard more fun so thanks for the ideas.

      That stat that Uruk Berserkers deal 5-7 is wrong. Uruk Berserkers use cleavers that do 8, one point better than the damage for the normal Uruk sword-type weapon. I did the same, but for a battleaxe.

      +First Anon: That's correct.

      +Second Anon: No, they weren't. Goblins in Tolkien's works are the same as Orcs, making goblin-men - which was only used by Hobbits to describe Half-Orcs in the books - Half-Orcs.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:11, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

      Ehm, I agree with Anon- Goblin-men and Half-orcs are notably different: Tolkien specifically stated:

      "But these creatures of Isengard, these half-orcs AND goblin-men that the foul craft of Saruman has bred, they will not quail at the sun"

      The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 7 Helm's Deep

      I understand the idea that Goblins are the english word for Orcs, however, Tolkien would never state two different things seperately- it'd be like calling geese and swans the same thing.

      My biggest assumption is that half-orcs are more orc than man, and goblin-men only have a certain amount of Orcish blood in them, but that's up to debate- what's clear is that they were seperate.

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    • Dr Frankus wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Sneaky184 wrote: I like most of these suggestions-epsecially the decreased spawn rate of Uruks- but i think the Half-Orc berserkers are a little too strong with strength and a weapon that deals 10 damage. I think they should deal 8-10 damage(Uruk berserkers do 5-7 according to the wikia page) and have the speed buff only. I think the diversity from these changes would make fighting with and against Isengard more fun so thanks for the ideas.

      That stat that Uruk Berserkers deal 5-7 is wrong. Uruk Berserkers use cleavers that do 8, one point better than the damage for the normal Uruk sword-type weapon. I did the same, but for a battleaxe.

      +First Anon: That's correct.

      +Second Anon: No, they weren't. Goblins in Tolkien's works are the same as Orcs, making goblin-men - which was only used by Hobbits to describe Half-Orcs in the books - Half-Orcs.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:11, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

      Ehm, I agree with Anon- Goblin-men and Half-orcs are notably different: Tolkien specifically stated:

      "But these creatures of Isengard, these half-orcs AND goblin-men that the foul craft of Saruman has bred, they will not quail at the sun"

      The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 7 Helm's Deep

      I understand the idea that Goblins are the english word for Orcs, however, Tolkien would never state two different things seperately- it'd be like calling geese and swans the same thing.

      My biggest assumption is that half-orcs are more orc than man, and goblin-men only have a certain amount of Orcish blood in them, but that's up to debate- what's clear is that they were seperate.

      I'm afraid that must have been a misquote. The book is called The Lord of the Rings, not The Two Towers.

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    • Thindithron the Great wrote:

      Dr Frankus wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Sneaky184 wrote: I like most of these suggestions-epsecially the decreased spawn rate of Uruks- but i think the Half-Orc berserkers are a little too strong with strength and a weapon that deals 10 damage. I think they should deal 8-10 damage(Uruk berserkers do 5-7 according to the wikia page) and have the speed buff only. I think the diversity from these changes would make fighting with and against Isengard more fun so thanks for the ideas.

      That stat that Uruk Berserkers deal 5-7 is wrong. Uruk Berserkers use cleavers that do 8, one point better than the damage for the normal Uruk sword-type weapon. I did the same, but for a battleaxe.

      +First Anon: That's correct.

      +Second Anon: No, they weren't. Goblins in Tolkien's works are the same as Orcs, making goblin-men - which was only used by Hobbits to describe Half-Orcs in the books - Half-Orcs.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:11, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

      Ehm, I agree with Anon- Goblin-men and Half-orcs are notably different: Tolkien specifically stated:

      "But these creatures of Isengard, these half-orcs AND goblin-men that the foul craft of Saruman has bred, they will not quail at the sun"

      The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 7 Helm's Deep

      I understand the idea that Goblins are the english word for Orcs, however, Tolkien would never state two different things seperately- it'd be like calling geese and swans the same thing.

      My biggest assumption is that half-orcs are more orc than man, and goblin-men only have a certain amount of Orcish blood in them, but that's up to debate- what's clear is that they were seperate.

      I'm afraid that must have been a misquote. The book is called The Lord of the Rings, not The Two Towers.

      The book is called The Two Towers, and is part of the Lord of the Rings as far as I am concerned- The Lord of the Rings covers Book I & Book II, while The Two Towers covers Book III and Book IV.

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    • NightsOfDarkness wrote: Have you done an Angmar one yet? Because I really wanna see what you will do with that because they currently get alignment from High Elves of Rivendell and Lindon, and from the Dunedain. Also Angmar orcs are very weak, so it's easy to grind alignment. I hope you can suggest something for this.

      Angmar is next. My vision may not be what you would expect, but I assure you, it will be both fun and interesting...

      +Frankus: It's for the same reason Gandalf said "Goblins, Hobgoblins, and Orcs" in the Hobbit: they're the same, but Half-Orcs is generally attributed more to the berserkers, while goblin-men is attributed more to the normal half-orcs: the Orc-like men Saruman used as spies.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 20:18, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

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    • Dr Frankus wrote:

      Thindithron the Great wrote:

      Dr Frankus wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Sneaky184 wrote: I like most of these suggestions-epsecially the decreased spawn rate of Uruks- but i think the Half-Orc berserkers are a little too strong with strength and a weapon that deals 10 damage. I think they should deal 8-10 damage(Uruk berserkers do 5-7 according to the wikia page) and have the speed buff only. I think the diversity from these changes would make fighting with and against Isengard more fun so thanks for the ideas.

      That stat that Uruk Berserkers deal 5-7 is wrong. Uruk Berserkers use cleavers that do 8, one point better than the damage for the normal Uruk sword-type weapon. I did the same, but for a battleaxe.

      +First Anon: That's correct.

      +Second Anon: No, they weren't. Goblins in Tolkien's works are the same as Orcs, making goblin-men - which was only used by Hobbits to describe Half-Orcs in the books - Half-Orcs.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:11, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

      Ehm, I agree with Anon- Goblin-men and Half-orcs are notably different: Tolkien specifically stated:

      "But these creatures of Isengard, these half-orcs AND goblin-men that the foul craft of Saruman has bred, they will not quail at the sun"

      The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 7 Helm's Deep

      I understand the idea that Goblins are the english word for Orcs, however, Tolkien would never state two different things seperately- it'd be like calling geese and swans the same thing.

      My biggest assumption is that half-orcs are more orc than man, and goblin-men only have a certain amount of Orcish blood in them, but that's up to debate- what's clear is that they were seperate.

      I'm afraid that must have been a misquote. The book is called The Lord of the Rings, not The Two Towers.

      The book is called The Two Towers, and is part of the Lord of the Rings as far as I am concerned- The Lord of the Rings covers Book I & Book II, while The Two Towers covers Book III and Book IV.

      No, the volume is called The Two Towers. A common misconception, but it does say on each volume 'the first/second/third part of The Lord of the Rings'.

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    • Dr Frankus wrote:

      Thindithron the Great wrote:

      Dr Frankus wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Sneaky184 wrote: I like most of these suggestions-epsecially the decreased spawn rate of Uruks- but i think the Half-Orc berserkers are a little too strong with strength and a weapon that deals 10 damage. I think they should deal 8-10 damage(Uruk berserkers do 5-7 according to the wikia page) and have the speed buff only. I think the diversity from these changes would make fighting with and against Isengard more fun so thanks for the ideas.

      That stat that Uruk Berserkers deal 5-7 is wrong. Uruk Berserkers use cleavers that do 8, one point better than the damage for the normal Uruk sword-type weapon. I did the same, but for a battleaxe.

      +First Anon: That's correct.

      +Second Anon: No, they weren't. Goblins in Tolkien's works are the same as Orcs, making goblin-men - which was only used by Hobbits to describe Half-Orcs in the books - Half-Orcs.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:11, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

      Ehm, I agree with Anon- Goblin-men and Half-orcs are notably different: Tolkien specifically stated:

      "But these creatures of Isengard, these half-orcs AND goblin-men that the foul craft of Saruman has bred, they will not quail at the sun"

      The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 7 Helm's Deep

      I understand the idea that Goblins are the english word for Orcs, however, Tolkien would never state two different things seperately- it'd be like calling geese and swans the same thing.

      My biggest assumption is that half-orcs are more orc than man, and goblin-men only have a certain amount of Orcish blood in them, but that's up to debate- what's clear is that they were seperate.

      I'm afraid that must have been a misquote. The book is called The Lord of the Rings, not The Two Towers.

      The book is called The Two Towers, and is part of the Lord of the Rings as far as I am concerned- The Lord of the Rings covers Book I & Book II, while The Two Towers covers Book III and Book IV.

      The books are unnamed. The Lord of the Rings is a single novel, in 3 volumes: FotR, TTT, and RotK.

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    • Recneps wrote:

      Dr Frankus wrote:

      Thindithron the Great wrote:

      Dr Frankus wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Sneaky184 wrote: I like most of these suggestions-epsecially the decreased spawn rate of Uruks- but i think the Half-Orc berserkers are a little too strong with strength and a weapon that deals 10 damage. I think they should deal 8-10 damage(Uruk berserkers do 5-7 according to the wikia page) and have the speed buff only. I think the diversity from these changes would make fighting with and against Isengard more fun so thanks for the ideas.

      That stat that Uruk Berserkers deal 5-7 is wrong. Uruk Berserkers use cleavers that do 8, one point better than the damage for the normal Uruk sword-type weapon. I did the same, but for a battleaxe.

      +First Anon: That's correct.

      +Second Anon: No, they weren't. Goblins in Tolkien's works are the same as Orcs, making goblin-men - which was only used by Hobbits to describe Half-Orcs in the books - Half-Orcs.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:11, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

      Ehm, I agree with Anon- Goblin-men and Half-orcs are notably different: Tolkien specifically stated:

      "But these creatures of Isengard, these half-orcs AND goblin-men that the foul craft of Saruman has bred, they will not quail at the sun"

      The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 7 Helm's Deep

      I understand the idea that Goblins are the english word for Orcs, however, Tolkien would never state two different things seperately- it'd be like calling geese and swans the same thing.

      My biggest assumption is that half-orcs are more orc than man, and goblin-men only have a certain amount of Orcish blood in them, but that's up to debate- what's clear is that they were seperate.

      I'm afraid that must have been a misquote. The book is called The Lord of the Rings, not The Two Towers.

      The book is called The Two Towers, and is part of the Lord of the Rings as far as I am concerned- The Lord of the Rings covers Book I & Book II, while The Two Towers covers Book III and Book IV.

      The books are unnamed. The Lord of the Rings is a single novel, in 3 volumes: FotR, TTT, and RotK.

      Actually, the books do have names, they just aren't often stated and were only decided posthumously. They are, in order:

      • The Return of the Shadow
      • The Fellowship of the Ring
      • The Treason of Isengard
      • The Journey to Mordor
      • The War of the Ring
      • The Return of the King

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 22:41, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

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    • If decided posthumously, I would not call them canon, as they were not chosen by J.R.R. Tolkien.

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    • Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Recneps wrote:

      Dr Frankus wrote:

      Thindithron the Great wrote:

      Dr Frankus wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Sneaky184 wrote: I like most of these suggestions-epsecially the decreased spawn rate of Uruks- but i think the Half-Orc berserkers are a little too strong with strength and a weapon that deals 10 damage. I think they should deal 8-10 damage(Uruk berserkers do 5-7 according to the wikia page) and have the speed buff only. I think the diversity from these changes would make fighting with and against Isengard more fun so thanks for the ideas.

      That stat that Uruk Berserkers deal 5-7 is wrong. Uruk Berserkers use cleavers that do 8, one point better than the damage for the normal Uruk sword-type weapon. I did the same, but for a battleaxe.

      +First Anon: That's correct.

      +Second Anon: No, they weren't. Goblins in Tolkien's works are the same as Orcs, making goblin-men - which was only used by Hobbits to describe Half-Orcs in the books - Half-Orcs.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:11, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

      Ehm, I agree with Anon- Goblin-men and Half-orcs are notably different: Tolkien specifically stated:

      "But these creatures of Isengard, these half-orcs AND goblin-men that the foul craft of Saruman has bred, they will not quail at the sun"

      The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 7 Helm's Deep

      I understand the idea that Goblins are the english word for Orcs, however, Tolkien would never state two different things seperately- it'd be like calling geese and swans the same thing.

      My biggest assumption is that half-orcs are more orc than man, and goblin-men only have a certain amount of Orcish blood in them, but that's up to debate- what's clear is that they were seperate.

      I'm afraid that must have been a misquote. The book is called The Lord of the Rings, not The Two Towers.

      The book is called The Two Towers, and is part of the Lord of the Rings as far as I am concerned- The Lord of the Rings covers Book I & Book II, while The Two Towers covers Book III and Book IV.

      The books are unnamed. The Lord of the Rings is a single novel, in 3 volumes: FotR, TTT, and RotK.

      Actually, the books do have names, they just aren't often stated and were only decided posthumously. They are, in order:

      • The Return of the Shadow
      • The Fellowship of the Ring
      • The Treason of Isengard
      • The Journey to Mordor
      • The War of the Ring
      • The Return of the King

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 22:41, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

      When last I looked, Tolkien, not posthumous publishers, was author of LotR.

        Loading editor
    • I agree! I'm an evil player, and always when I go to Isengard I get a little bored. Also, I think about and Uruk woodman (orcharder), as first Isengard was a big forest and I don't think they used all the wood for the forges.

        Loading editor
    • Thindithron the Great wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Recneps wrote:

      Dr Frankus wrote:

      Thindithron the Great wrote:

      Dr Frankus wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Sneaky184 wrote: I like most of these suggestions-epsecially the decreased spawn rate of Uruks- but i think the Half-Orc berserkers are a little too strong with strength and a weapon that deals 10 damage. I think they should deal 8-10 damage(Uruk berserkers do 5-7 according to the wikia page) and have the speed buff only. I think the diversity from these changes would make fighting with and against Isengard more fun so thanks for the ideas.

      That stat that Uruk Berserkers deal 5-7 is wrong. Uruk Berserkers use cleavers that do 8, one point better than the damage for the normal Uruk sword-type weapon. I did the same, but for a battleaxe.

      +First Anon: That's correct.

      +Second Anon: No, they weren't. Goblins in Tolkien's works are the same as Orcs, making goblin-men - which was only used by Hobbits to describe Half-Orcs in the books - Half-Orcs.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:11, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

      Ehm, I agree with Anon- Goblin-men and Half-orcs are notably different: Tolkien specifically stated:

      "But these creatures of Isengard, these half-orcs AND goblin-men that the foul craft of Saruman has bred, they will not quail at the sun"

      The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 7 Helm's Deep

      I understand the idea that Goblins are the english word for Orcs, however, Tolkien would never state two different things seperately- it'd be like calling geese and swans the same thing.

      My biggest assumption is that half-orcs are more orc than man, and goblin-men only have a certain amount of Orcish blood in them, but that's up to debate- what's clear is that they were seperate.

      I'm afraid that must have been a misquote. The book is called The Lord of the Rings, not The Two Towers.

      The book is called The Two Towers, and is part of the Lord of the Rings as far as I am concerned- The Lord of the Rings covers Book I & Book II, while The Two Towers covers Book III and Book IV.

      The books are unnamed. The Lord of the Rings is a single novel, in 3 volumes: FotR, TTT, and RotK.

      Actually, the books do have names, they just aren't often stated and were only decided posthumously. They are, in order:

      • The Return of the Shadow
      • The Fellowship of the Ring
      • The Treason of Isengard
      • The Journey to Mordor
      • The War of the Ring
      • The Return of the King

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 22:41, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

      When last I looked, Tolkien, not posthumous publishers, was author of LotR.

      They were decided - by Christopher Tolkien - based on Tolkien's own conceptual writings. They're canon.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 00:08, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

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    • If Christopher Tolkien's decisions are final, then does that mean that all of Tolkien's later, conceptual lores are invalid, only what Christopher decided to publish in the Silmarillion?

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    • Recneps wrote: If Christopher Tolkien's decisions are final, then does that mean that all of Tolkien's later, conceptual lores are invalid, only what Christopher decided to publish in the Silmarillion?

      He published all of those in some form too. :-P

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 01:47, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

        Loading editor
    • Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Recneps wrote: If Christopher Tolkien's decisions are final, then does that mean that all of Tolkien's later, conceptual lores are invalid, only what Christopher decided to publish in the Silmarillion?

      He published all of those in some form too. :-P

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 01:47, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

      I think there's a difference here. His letters etc were actually written by Tolkien, but Christopher came up with the book names? That would make them not specifically 'canon' if such a thing can be said of a name of a book, but rather just the names of those books in editions that have them.

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    • I have always wanted to play Isengard because i like industrial items and factorys but i do not want people to think i only Play because its OP

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    • Thindithron the Great wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Recneps wrote: If Christopher Tolkien's decisions are final, then does that mean that all of Tolkien's later, conceptual lores are invalid, only what Christopher decided to publish in the Silmarillion?

      He published all of those in some form too. :-P

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 01:47, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

      I think there's a difference here. His letters etc were actually written by Tolkien, but Christopher came up with the book names? That would make them not specifically 'canon' if such a thing can be said of a name of a book, but rather just the names of those books in editions that have them.

      The names all stem from what Tolkien actually wrote. In fact, he wrote all of them - Christopher Tolkien just applied them to the books. They fit well enough. And they are, without dispute, canon.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:11, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

        Loading editor
    • Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Thindithron the Great wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      Recneps wrote: If Christopher Tolkien's decisions are final, then does that mean that all of Tolkien's later, conceptual lores are invalid, only what Christopher decided to publish in the Silmarillion?

      He published all of those in some form too. :-P

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 01:47, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

      I think there's a difference here. His letters etc were actually written by Tolkien, but Christopher came up with the book names? That would make them not specifically 'canon' if such a thing can be said of a name of a book, but rather just the names of those books in editions that have them.

      The names all stem from what Tolkien actually wrote. In fact, he wrote all of them - Christopher Tolkien just applied them to the books. They fit well enough. And they are, without dispute, canon.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 10:11, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

      As I said, 'canon' doesn't really refer to mere book titles. It is just a matter of correctness.

      This isn't worth arguing about, so I'm stopping.

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    • Love that suggestion, but in and around Nan Curunir the terrain should not be wasted. Gandalf would have become suspicious if he would have seen dead trees everywhere.

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    • I think that Isengard's faction relations should be shifted around, personally. Like being neutral with Hobbits and (When it's added) Bree. Saruman did have allies in many places, and was even able to buy from them which, in the mod, doesn't make sense with enemy factions. Maybe there could even be some kind of Isengard/Half-orc mini-quest to get a certain amount of pipeweed.

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    • +Sean: Mevans has said in the past that factions will be implemented in such a way that they can best be played as they were at their prime within reason, hence WOTR-era Isengard.

      +Hair: Good ideas tbh.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 19:48, March 23, 2018 (UTC)

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    • Thanks, reading this suggestion and a few others kept me from making the mistake of suggesting it myself.

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    • A FANDOM user
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