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  • I’m just curious as to what you guys think of this idea. What if a new dimension was added, called the Roots of the Mountains. Mithril ore would be nearly nonexistent if present at all at the bottom of the Misties. However, more of it could be found towards the bottom of this dimension. Tolkien often references the “roots of the mountains” and the creatures that live there, but we don’t get a good description of most of the animal life.

    This level would be full of danger to make it hard to get mithril. It would have caves full of goblins and orcs and cave trolls. The caves would be much more common and much larger than in the Overworld. I imagine that in the deepest layers of the new dimension where mithril would be more abundant, there would be frequent dangers (maybe even Dragon’s lairs if added)? Gollum would spawn in this dimension. There would also be ruins - both from Orcs and Dwarves - dungeons and tunnels and mines, etc. This would be an opportunity for the mod team to be creative: we don’t really know what else lived down there - we just know other things lived down there. It would be good to give them names that imply the other factions really don’t know what they are, like Earth Gnawers or Forgotten Things. Some quotes:

    “The roots of those mountains must be roots indeed; there must be great secrets buried there which have not been discovered since the beginning.” - Gollum , as quoted by Gandalf, The Fellowship of the Ring

    “Goodness knows what the striking of matches and the smell of tobacco would have brought out of dark holes in that horrible place.” - The Hobbit

    “...And he thought, too, of nasty slimy things, with big bulging blind eyes, wriggling in the water. There are strange things living in the pools and lakes in the hearts of the mountains: fish whose fathers swam in, goodness only knows how many years ago, and never swam out again, while their eyes grew bigger and bigger from trying to see in the blackness; also there are other things more slimy than fish. Even in the tunnels and caves the Goblins have made for themselves there are other things living unbeknown to them that have sneaked in from outside to lie up in the dark. Some of these caves, too, go back in their beginnings to ages before the goblins, who only widened them and joined them up with passages, and the original owners are still there in odd corners, slinking and nosing about.” - The Hobbit

    “We fought far under the living earth, where time is not counted. Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels. They were not made by Durin’s Folk, Gimli son of Glóin. Far, far below the deepest delving of the dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day.” - Gandalf in the Two Towers

    Portals would resemble Utumno portals in that they are long shafts. They would generate randomly in caves deep in the Misty Mountains. However it would always spawn the player in the same place so they could build things there if they wanted. Mithril would be in large veins very deep in the dimension, and mining it would be dangerous.

    There would be generated structures including meandering labyrinths of caves, of all sizes, underground rivers and lakes, Orc / Goblin holes, and Dwarven ruins. Maybe also Gundabad strongholds or Durin’s Folk strongholds as well as enormous underground fortresses.

    Pros:
    - Mithril would be harder and riskier to get. More of an accomplishment.
    - Another cool dimension with potential for a lot of variety
    - Fun adventuring, fighting, and looting in the Roots of the Mountains
    - Servers, by limiting acces to this dimension, could limit mithril use if they wanted.

    Cons:
    - Lag on servers?
    - Too much trouble?
    - Would it just make more people go to the Barrow-Downs?

    Please post your thoughts below. Tell me what you think about:
    - The idea in general
    - How would the portal work?
    - Any idea for denizens of the Roots of the Mountains?
    - Should the dimension be shaped like the Misty Mountains or boundless?
    - Should there be waypoints?
    - Other dangers?
    Etc.

    What do you think?
     
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    The poll was created at 15:05 on October 14, 2017, and so far 50 people voted.

    EDIT: Balrogs would not spawn in this dimension, unless Durin’s Bane is added as a lore character.

    EDIT: Added portal idea by ElenionoftheFirmament.

    EDIT: Added creature names and some ruins based on suggestions by Fandalf.

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    • Gud, kudo

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    • Thanks I appreciate it!

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    • Perhaps upon mining some of these veins there is a chance to spawn a stronger balrog than those in utumno?

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    • That would be cool. I was thinking something along the lines of finding a little pocket in the stone where a Balrog is trapped. However spawning one upon mining a vein would probably be better - a) because it is harder to avoid and b) because it matches the lore description of waking up a Balrog better. Though the books don’t quite make up their minds whether the Balrog was asleep ore imprisoned down there.

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    • These Balrogs would probably need the ability to smash stone blocks to avoid players just hiding in tiny tunnels.

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    • Quite interesting idea... I like it!

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    • This is a geral idea!  Maybe there should be naturally spawning portals that are descretely hidden in dark caves so player walk through them by accident and this would provide a smooth transition from the misties to the roots.

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    • Yes, something like that. As smooth a transition as possible would be ideal. Characters like Bilbo do find their way through caves by accident to the Roots of the Mountains.

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    • Seems pretty good to me. The only thing I'd say: there should be no Balrogs. There was only Durin's Bane down there.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

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    • Where does it say that Durin’s Bane was the only one? “The Balrogs were destroyed, save some few that fled and hid themselves in caverns inaccessible at the roots of the earth...” - The Silmarillion, Of the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath. I would say there is a chance you could run into a balrog down there, but very, very small (as in say, like one balrog for 2-3 hrs. of mining). So as to not replace Utumno.

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    • But if there is a case that Balrogs aren’t lore-friendly, other dangers like cave-trolls and dragons can take their place.

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    • Well, there were only three to at most seven balrogs in existence. We know that two at least were slain before the War of Wrath, and doubtless most of the rest died in the War. I'd say there *might* be one imprizoned underground somewhere in Middle-earth, but not another under Moria.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

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    • Ok fair enough. We will just have to wait for Durin’s Bane to be added as a lore character then.

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    • This would be great combined with this suggestion!   

      I am going to try and work on some textures for blind fish!

      But I will leave the mysterious dark creatures to the likes of Sir Lazuli, Ithilien, Gruk and Mevans

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    • Yes textures would be awesome! Any ideas for the other creatures that lived down there as well. Tolkien tantalizingly hinted at things but didn’t describe them - so we can be creative! I really like that suggestion, caves could be way cooler.

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    • @Ithilion: Is it possible according to lore that there would be more creatures like the Watcher in the Water down there?

      Also does anyone have a good idea for a way to make the jump between dimensions a smooth transition?

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    • That's most likely among the "nameless things" down there.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

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    • I don't know how I feel about portals being a player made construct. I would like it if you could rarely find long shafts in the deep places of The Misty Mountains that would lead down to an Utumno-like portal to the roots of the mountains.

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    • That’s a good idea. It may be better if the player had to spend time exploring caves to find a way down.

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    • Just added a suggestion for Cave Trolls, please read :P Sorry for that spoiler.

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    • -Why should Gollum spawn here? High Pass is far from Moria

      -Portal could be similar to The Pits, in a room at a low level under Caradhras (fixed)

      -Would orcs and trolls be of Gundabad and Mordor (Tolkien write about black uruks of mordor in moria), or of a new faction "Roots of the Mountain" (maybe negative with every faction like utumno to make mithril difficult to get for everyone). If they're gundabad and mordor, i'd suggest durin's folk invasions spawn down there commonly (or just spawn, with no invasion) like if they want to reconquest khazad dum, they would be the danger for evil players

      -

      -no waypoints

      -1)How to exit from the Roots? what about a "Durin's plate", like melkor's plate in utumno? 2) to make dangerous the mining of mithril, it could be like grapes in dorwinion and mallorn in lothlorien, if you break a ore, orcs spawn hindering you. killing a orc who spawned in this way would give an achievement like "tragecy of the commons" and "i want that wood"

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    • So portals would be similar to The Pits. They would be randomized across the Misties, so there wouldn’t be a rush of players all digging to the same coordinates under Caradhras. The dimension would extend under all of the mountains, not just the mines, so it would include Gollum’s Lake. I assumed Gundabad and Mordor, but maybe a new faction would be cool. At the very least, all the other creatures down there will be hostile to everything. I like the idea of Durin’s folk invasions (rarely). With regards to waypoints, I was thinking something like Moria, Dwarrowdelf, Goblin-Town, etc (the current Goblin-Town waypoint would be removed and replaced with two waypoints in the overworld: Front Door and Back Porch). Durin’s Plate would be cool. I hadn’t thought much about it, but in the books Gandalf escapes by holding onto the balrog as he climbs a flight of stairs made by the dwarves. Orcs spawning when you mined mithril could be a good idea but it might be unrealistic.

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    • Personally, I think it's better to have them under Redhorn, for lore reasons.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

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    • All the portals under Caradhras?

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    • When Moria is added the chasm around the Bridge of Khazad-dûm will be a portal.

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    • Maybe it would be more lore-friendly but it would take away from the gameplay. Also Bilbo found his way into the Roots of the Mountains from Goblin-town, and Gollum found his way down from somewhere else.

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    • I'd keep the orcs as gudabaddies, and make it so that they are a more rare occurrence. The nameless things however, should have no faction and attack everyone.

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    • ElenionoftheFirmament wrote: I'd keep the orcs as gudabaddies, and make it so that they are a more rare occurrence. The nameless things however, should have no faction and attack everyone.

      Quite right. Gollum, who falls under the nameless things classification in The Hobbit, attacks goblins and wants to eat Bilbo (he likes you if you have fish though).

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    • Okay guys, made an suggestion on mobs!

      http://lotrminecraftmod.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:384682

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    • Portals to the Deep can be found throughout the mountains, but mithril should be kept under Caradhras only. 

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

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    • Yes that would be the most lore-friendly. But I still don’t think that mithril only under one mountain would be enough to supply a server’s worth of players. Maybe mithril ore could only be mined under Caradhras, but mithril equipment and ingots could be found in loot across the dimension?

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    • To make this least magic like as possible portals the return journey should be just going through the portal. Also very rare dwarven ruins should be found here! The creatures could be called Earth Gnawers or Forgotton Things. It should show your map position under the Misty Mountains.

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    • I will try to find it at some point, but a suggestion with a similar overall concept was posted right about the time I joined the wiki.  It had the same idea of adding a new dimension under Moria, but they suggested making it a lot more Lovecraft-y than it should be, in my opinion.  If you can find it, it may give you some more inspiration.

      When I have a bit more time, I will leave some more detailed input, as well as find that suggestion, if I can.  I really like the general idea, though!

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    • @Fandalf - all awesome ideas. I think going through the portal would be the best return journey - my only issue is that that would mean portals couldn’t be vertical shafts so we’d need to come up with something new. Dwarven ruins of course would be here, especially under Moria. Earth Gnawers and Forgotten Things are good names.

      @S’moregoth - Ok I will look. I have not seen any suggestions regarding a new dimension but I will look. Thanks for the heads up.

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    • If it's in another dimension, we can have infinite Mithril. No need to fit it only below the mountain.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

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    • OK I get it - so you’re saying mithril can be found throughout the Roots of the Mountains dimension, but in the overworld mithril veins will only spawn in very small quantities under Caradhras and nowhere else? I think that is a good idea.

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    • No, what I'm saying is that there should be Mithril in the Moria sub-biome, and also Mithril in the Roots of the Mountains area under Caradhras. Other Roots of the Mountains areas would not have them--only under Moria. That makes control of Moria important on multiplayer servers and adds lore to both multi and singleplayer. It also encourages players to *not* rush for full mith, which is something people often complain about.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

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    • @Sir Lazuli - Eureka!  I have found it!  This is the suggestion I was thinking of.

      @Ithilion - When you mentioned "Other Roots of the Mountains areas", were you meaning that there should be multiple Roots of the Mountains areas, or that it should only contain mithril in a certain area of the other dimension?  Also, I would think (these are just my thoughts, they aren't backed by anything) that there would have to be more Mithril under the mountains, and that it would be more spread out.  From what little I have learned about geology, it appears that Mountains are formed when two tectonic plates collide, and they both bend upwards, so, theoretically, there would have had to be Mithril there before the mountains were made.  Do you know if the Misty Mountains were created in a particlur way?


      The suggestion that I pointed out above is actually really close to what I envisioned for this to be like.  The main thing that I would change from the other suggestion is to make the monsters less Cthulu-esque.

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    • The Misty Mountains were raised by Melko to inconvenience Orome bringing the Eldar to Valinor.

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    • Ok, thanks!

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    • @S’moregoth - Interesting. I did not know that there was a suggestion about it. Some of the ideas are nice, like the exotic flora and rock formations, and the endless stair might make a good portal. However - this is NOT another Utumno, as just a place to have really creepy monsters. Gundabad and Durin’s Folk will both have influence down here (even if Durin’s Folk is only ruins) so any players will have some faction on their side. This is NOT a dungeon with three levels. It will change with depth, but the blocks (at least the majority) will be mineable so players can create massive bases down here if they like. I wouldn’t go with the types of gruesome monsters in that suggestion - rather unique and curious things (though unfriendly) that live down there. It would be a fun place to adventure, build, and mine, but very dangerous.

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    • This is a wonderful idea! It would be very interesting to have something like this for the Misties.

      If I may, here are some suggestions I think would help improve your idea.

      1. While most of the dimension should be cave-like, the cave-generation should be changed to look more fluent, such as in Utumno. Larger stalactites and stalagmites should be available, and the cave-systems should look more organic. Certain chambers should be flooded.

      2. Darkness should fill the entire area, and torches should give off the same amount of light as redstone torches, but with a cold blue light.

      3. You should not be able to sleep

      4. Similar to mine shafts, a structure that would be uncommon would be a dungeon-esque dwarven mining shaft/rig. These would be empty and ruined. When walking through here echoing and whispering sounds should be heard. Walking sounds are amplified. It would be cool if they all pointed to the direction of the location of Durin's Bane

      5. Rarely, Forgotten Dwarves should be encountered in the mining shafts. They would be pale and raggedy, and would run away from the player (they would always outrun the player if chased). When they are out of sight or completely in darkness, they would despawn.

      6. Mitril should be rarely found in chests in these dwarven rigs.

      7. Exit from this dimension should be through the Endless Stair,

      8. Nameless things should be extremely rare. I don't know about their exact stats, form and attack, but they should be close to fighting an Olog-hai. They would be able to break blocks if needed.

      They would make ambience noises when near them, and have a lovecraftian appearance.

      9. Any relic dwarven armor (especially for Moira) should be found here.

      10. Gundabad orcs should be found rarely in the higher levels. They would have a terrified speech bank, and would fight nameless things.

      A new type of Orc, 'Feral orcs' would be added, and they would have a chance of attacking anyone, even players with evil alignment. They would be pale / dark colored, and be covered in furs. They'd be found in the lower levels of the dimension, and change their hostility rapidly. They would wield no armor and gundabad Uruk / angmar weapons.

      10. Compasses and Clocks do not work here. they would point to random directions or spin around wildly. Maps would simply show static noise.

      Other than that, I really like your idea!

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    • When fixed structures are added there should be threemain access points: under Durin’s bridge, under goblin town ( gollum’s lake) and my gundabad. There would be randomly spawning portals in caves near bedrock in the Misty Mountains and Durin’s tower would spawn from the top of th Misty Mountains to the bottom of the roots. Gundabad and Moria orcs should spawn here and so should goblins. Torches should be half as effective. This should be the height of the sku limit to bedrock. The further down you go the more Earth Gnawers and Forgotton Things there are and the less orcs and goblins and dwarven ruins. As suggested in the cave overhaul there should be chasms and underground rivers and lakes. Blind fish would spawn in the river and lakes in varying sizes. When entering you should get the achievement “Dungeons deep and caverns old” When you light a match or place a torch any Forgotton Things or Earth Gnawers should attack. Earth Gnawers should be able to break blocks! They should come in different sizes and forms and orcs would run away from them

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    • I want Mevans to add this.

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    • Yayyyyyyy saying you want this doesn't mean he'll add this ahahahahahhahahaha. Ideas about alternate realms need time.

      Mevans isn't going to look at this one day and go like OH I'LL ADD THIS *comes in next update*. He just overhauled Utumno, so I dun think they'll add any other realm work in the near future.

      But rock on Lazuli!

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    • I doubt that Orcs would be down here tbh, by the impression we get from Gandalf reporting on his fall it sounds like there were none.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:
      I doubt that Orcs would be down here tbh, by the impression we get from Gandalf reporting on his fall it sounds like there were none.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

      I was thinking that they are rare and then non-existent to create a smooth transition and to make it feel like just an extension of Middle-earth, not a whole new dimension.

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    • There should be a smooth transition in the portal, like the way back up from Utumno but maybe your screen goes black.

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    • I dont't think adding a new dimention for this would be good. I would instead prefer to have higher biomes and a higher building limit. Let me explain it :

      This dimention would exist to correct the fact that the ground under mountains is not very deep. So having a higher building limit would solve this. The limit would be set to something around y=800. The normal biomes (thoses who are not montaings or hills) would have a default altitude at something around 400, it could be lower or higher depending on wich biome. The foothils would have the lowest ground (don't know if I can say it so, if not say it to me) at 450 an the highest hills would go to 500. The lowest ground on mountain biomes would be around y=500, and normal mountains would culminate at y=600, the highest, like Caradhras, or other tall mountains would culmintate around y=700, or more. These altitudes could change, depending on wich mountains we are talking about. For example, the Misty Mountains would be higher than the Iron hills.

      In the Misties, below y=300, we would have the roots suggested here.

      And there would be far less lava in Middle Earth, and more water under the Misties to allow these roots.


      The advantages of this would be :

      - We could have very tall mountains,

      - The Lonely-Mountain would look like an actual mountain,

      - The Falls Rauros could exist, because every biome has a different default altitude, so the northern biomes (or at least those around the Anduin) would be higher than the other, and their altitude would decrease to the sea)

      - No need to smooth transision or portal, because it's the same dimention, and no need for this dimention.

      - Dwarven players (and Gundabad players) would have more space to build their bases. And Moria could have so many floors.


      The drawbacks I see are :

      - The chunks could be slower to generate, because there are more blocks (but another dimention could make lag too)

      - The effects to torchs (less effective) and other things like that would be more difficult to code,

      - There would be a very big difference between areas generated before and after an update with a thing like this, but servers have world edit to copy player bases

      Coding all this and changing all biomes data can take a while, but making a new dimention would take a while too.


      I remenber about a discussion about a higher building limit, but I can't remember what the admins said about it.

      If I made mistakes, I'm sorry.

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    • I agree but it is easier said than done.  It is not as simple as just changing it; many things depend on the height of mountains or rivers!

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    • Fandalf wrote:
      I agree but it is easier said than done.  It is not as simple as just changing it; many things depend on the height of mountains or rivers!


      I know that, but after coding it, you would have a more ralistic world to play in.

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    • @Ithilion: I imagine Orcs would only be towards the top. Same goes for Dwarven ruins, except under Moria, where they would be deep.

      @Fandalf: I think you understand the concept pretty well.

      @Gandalf II: This may have some of the same effects but I still think a new dimension would give more opportunity for a more diverse adventuring environment and much, much deeper mining to make players feel like they are really at the bottom of the world. Your idea might work though.

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    • @Fandom User:

      1. I agree. More caves as well as flooded caves and underground lakes and rivers would be good.

      2. I think torches should give off less light, but maybe save the cold blue light for a special kind of torch found here?

      3. Ok that makes sense

      4. Cool ideas here. I like the echoes and whispering, but I don’t know if they would all point towards Durin’s Bane.

      5. Interesting idea - I’m not sure if it would be a good addition.

      6. Yes, I imagine mithril will be in a lot of loot chests throughout the dimension.

      7. The endless stair would make a good exit portal.

      8. Nameless things would vary great,y in size and strength - some weak and some very formidable. They would be practically nonexistent at the top and a little more common at the bottom.

      9. Relic Dwarven armour would be great. Goblins wearing gold-trimmed Dwarven armour?

      10. Gundabad Orcs in the to- levels would most certainly fight nameless things if they found them, but I don’t think they’d have a terrified speech bank. If you remember the goblins in The Hobbit, this was their home and they really weren’t that scared of their tunnels.

      Feral Orcs: this is an interesting idea. If added though they would only be in the middle to upper levels. The bottom area would be free of Orcs.

      10: This makes sense.

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    • The occasional Goblin might have access to a Dwarvish mail-shirt, but I think decking them out in the current armor, let alone a gilded version, would just look weird.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

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    • Yeah I know it just was a very funny picture. Maybe a slightly higher chance for Moria Orcs to have bits of Dwarven armour, or they could be the only Orcs to do so, Gundabad would not?

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    • Questions for mods / admins: There seems to be quite a bit of interest in this idea. Is it worth writing up a more detailed post for the suggestions forum, or should it stay here? Is it too similar to the suggestion S’moregoth found?

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    • Gandalf II wrote: I dont't think adding a new dimention for this would be good. I would instead prefer to have higher biomes and a higher building limit. Let me explain it :

      This dimention would exist to correct the fact that the ground under mountains is not very deep. So having a higher building limit would solve this. The limit would be set to something around y=800. The normal biomes (thoses who are not montaings or hills) would have a default altitude at something around 400, it could be lower or higher depending on wich biome. The foothils would have the lowest ground (don't know if I can say it so, if not say it to me) at 450 an the highest hills would go to 500. The lowest ground on mountain biomes would be around y=500, and normal mountains would culminate at y=600, the highest, like Caradhras, or other tall mountains would culmintate around y=700, or more. These altitudes could change, depending on wich mountains we are talking about. For example, the Misty Mountains would be higher than the Iron hills.

      In the Misties, below y=300, we would have the roots suggested here.

      And there would be far less lava in Middle Earth, and more water under the Misties to allow these roots.


      The advantages of this would be :

      - We could have very tall mountains,

      - The Lonely-Mountain would look like an actual mountain,

      - The Falls Rauros could exist, because every biome has a different default altitude, so the northern biomes (or at least those around the Anduin) would be higher than the other, and their altitude would decrease to the sea)

      - No need to smooth transision or portal, because it's the same dimention, and no need for this dimention.

      - Dwarven players (and Gundabad players) would have more space to build their bases. And Moria could have so many floors.


      The drawbacks I see are :

      - The chunks could be slower to generate, because there are more blocks (but another dimention could make lag too)

      - The effects to torchs (less effective) and other things like that would be more difficult to code,

      - There would be a very big difference between areas generated before and after an update with a thing like this, but servers have world edit to copy player bases

      Coding all this and changing all biomes data can take a while, but making a new dimention would take a while too.


      I remenber about a discussion about a higher building limit, but I can't remember what the admins said about it.

      If I made mistakes, I'm sorry.

      This kind of world gen really wouldn't work that well for two reasons:

      1. If you are going to make the y axis of middle earth to scale, then you have to make the x and z axes to scale as well. If you don't, then mountains will look super stretched, and not very visually appealing.

      2. If each biome had its own set "altitude," then they would all sort of look like steps down to the ocean. The transition between all of the different biomes would be very awkward. Irl, everything is a gradual slope to the ocean, no?

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    • @ElenionoftheFirmament: Agreed, although the main reason I would rather it be its own dimension is the greater opportunity for variety and creativity for adventuring deep under the Mountains.

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    • ElenionoftheFirmament wrote:
      [...]

      2. If each biome had its own set "altitude," then they would all sort of look like steps down to the ocean. The transition between all of the different biomes would be very awkward. Irl, everything is a gradual slope to the ocean, no?

      The altitude difference between 2 biomes next to each other would be of one block, maybe 2. It would only be several blocks at Rauros.

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    • Well don’t the biomes already each have height levels? Hills regions are higher than the regions around them (like the Rivendell hills). But I still think it wouldn’t be as much fun if the Misties were just a little taller in the same dimension. Another dimension gives so many more opportunities for immense caves and plunging chasms, and all manner of subterranean wonderlands.

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    • I didn't explain well : the 1 block transition I talked about and the Rauros concerned flat areas. The difference between hills and mountains would be higher.

      Also some biomes are taller than others, but their rivers are all at the same altitude,so there is not a big difference.

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    • Raising the block height is hard to do, and I believe Mevans has stated that it's not worth pursuing as of now. Don't quote me on that.

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    • High King Ithilion wrote: I doubt that Orcs would be down here tbh, by the impression we get from Gandalf reporting on his fall it sounds like there were none.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

      Yeah, I'd say that enemies here should be rarer, in general. It should be a pretty safe place.. Except for the occasional monster you do find should be incredibly strong. The enemies should be a risk discouraging mining, not a regular nuisance to be easily planned and accounted for.

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    • Recneps wrote:

      High King Ithilion wrote: I doubt that Orcs would be down here tbh, by the impression we get from Gandalf reporting on his fall it sounds like there were none.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

      Yeah, I'd say that enemies here should be rarer, in general. It should be a pretty safe place.. Except for the occasional monster you do find should be incredibly strong. The enemies should be a risk discouraging mining, not a regular nuisance to be easily planned and accounted for.

      I agree.  In my opinion, this should be somewhat the inverse of Utumno - start with comparatively easy access to the exit, some beautiful/cool things instead of just endless tunnels, and risky overall, but easier to escape alive.

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    • You seem to be focusing on creatures like goblins, trolls, dragons, and Balrogs, but Gandalf himself said that down there, the tunnels are made by "nameless things."  I personally believe that if the Roots of the Mountains were to be added, you should add some of these "nameless things" as brand new mobs with new models and very vague names, like "strange creature," or "unknown beast."  As for what the models should look like, I think that many real-life invertebrates, such as mantids or octopi, should provide sufficient inspiration.  And, going along with what Recneps wrote, I think they should spawn rarely and have a lot of health.

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    • @Recneps - correct.

      @S’moregoth - You get the idea pretty well. I definitely agree.

      @Fandom user - Agreed. These creatures have been a part of the suggestion all along (the names Earth Gnawers and Forgotten Things as suggested by Fandalf are implemented into the original post). I agree that invertebrates are a great place to start because of the variety of bizarre creatures. Anything from creatures like the Watcher in the Water to things like giant centipedes or even more types of spiders would probably work pretty well!

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    • Great Sir Lazuli once this gets enough kudos are you going to make a full compilation of the ideas and post it on the suggestions forum board

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    • Remember that the idea that Gandalf/Tolkien paints for us is a place of horror such that both he and Durin's Bane we're scrambling to get out of there. I would suggest no beautiful things. Mebbe only the cool stuff from forgotten people who ventured down there long ago.

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    • RevaulRen wrote:
      Remember that the idea that Gandalf/Tolkien paints for us is a place of horror such that both he and Durin's Bane we're scrambling to get out of there. I would suggest no beautiful things. Mebbe only the cool stuff from forgotten people who ventured down there long ago.

      Maybe, but I thought that Durin's Bane just wanted to be lit up again, and that Gandalf was following him so as not to get lost down there.

      I think that it should be scary, but I also think that have some beauty, even if beautiful places are few and far between.

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    • True...maybe ancient ruins that sank down from or were sucked down by the sea.

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    • There will be beautiful things. Mithril was beautiful. Gollum’s precious was beautiful...

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    • Sir Lazuli wrote: Maybe it would be more lore-friendly but it would take away from the gameplay. Also Bilbo found his way into the Roots of the Mountains from Goblin-town, and Gollum found his way down from somewhere else.

      Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Gollums cavern was at the depth of the roots of the mountains.

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    • Yes it would be in my opinion. In The Hobbit, Tolkien writes like he hadn’t come up with Gollum’s backstory yet. All he is is one of the nameless things at the bottom of the world - “Deep down here by the dark water lived old Gollum, a small slimy creature. I don’t know where he came from, nor who or what he was. He was Gollum-as dark as darkness, except for two big round pale eyes in his thin face.”

      Also you will see from the quote in the original post it was Gollum’s intention to get deep down to the Roots of the Mountains. So I think it’s reasonable that we take his cavern to be there.

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    • Sir Lazuli wrote:
      Yes it would be in my opinion. In The Hobbit, Tolkien writes like he hadn’t come up with Gollum’s backstory yet. All he is is one of the nameless things at the bottom of the world - “Deep down here by the dark water lived old Gollum, a small slimy creature. I don’t know where he came from, nor who or what he was. He was Gollum-as dark as darkness, except for two big round pale eyes in his thin face.”

      Also you will see from the quote in the original post it was Gollum’s intention to get deep down to the Roots of the Mountains. So I think it’s reasonable that we take his cavern to be there.

      In my opinion, what you are suggesting is something deeper than the roots of the mountains.  Also, the place where Gollum was (if I remember correctly) was occasionally visited by Goblins.  If what you are describing is the place that Gandalf fell into with the Balrog, I doubt Goblins would have gone there at all.

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    • S'moregoth wrote:

      Sir Lazuli wrote:
      Yes it would be in my opinion. In The Hobbit, Tolkien writes like he hadn’t come up with Gollum’s backstory yet. All he is is one of the nameless things at the bottom of the world - “Deep down here by the dark water lived old Gollum, a small slimy creature. I don’t know where he came from, nor who or what he was. He was Gollum-as dark as darkness, except for two big round pale eyes in his thin face.”

      Also you will see from the quote in the original post it was Gollum’s intention to get deep down to the Roots of the Mountains. So I think it’s reasonable that we take his cavern to be there.

      In my opinion, what you are suggesting is something deeper than the roots of the mountains.  Also, the place where Gollum was (if I remember correctly) was occasionally visited by Goblins.  If what you are describing is the place that Gandalf fell into with the Balrog, I doubt Goblins would have gone there at all.

      More or less, yeah. Gollum’s lake would be near the top of the dimension, but still in the roots of the mountains. Gundabad Orcs / goblins would still inhabit the upper levels, as said above. Gollum’s lake was the deepest extent of the goblin-tunnels in that particular direction, and they occasionally wandered that deep.

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    • Gandalf fell to the bottom of the dimension, at “The uttermost foundations of stone” = bedrock

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    • Make some silverfish-like mob that burrows in the stone so you can't just peacefully strip mine. normally strip mining makes it so where you cannot be attacked by mobs as long as you plug the back of your hole, also could we have like obsidian caves or something? Cause the caves would have been made by lava, so any caves in this should be surrounded by obsidian making it harder for people to just mine to safety. Also caves should be rather big, if not just because it would look amazing and give players a place to fight the huge beasts that lurk in the lower realms of the earth.

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    • I agree. Obsidian would be cool, as well as other stone like maybe marble. The caves would be larger and much more frequent. Creatures like “Earth Gnawers” would be able to dig through stone and enter players’ strip mines. I agree that is a necessity - this is not just a place to peacefully mine.

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    • how about moving quartz into this place since on most servers you can't get to the nether anymore?

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    • I would like quartz here, and other crystals. Maybe they could be constructed like plants (two planes in an X shape) but grow off of walls and ceilings in caves instead of just the ground? Quartz also needs some more uses in the mod.

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    • Maybe instead of spawning randomly the portals spawn within a 50(?) block radius of the waypoints: Goblin town, High pass, Moria.

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    • Maybe. Or at least within a few chunks. This might give players a more specific place to look, but I think it would be more fun if they were really rare and in no particular place so players would have to spend some time wandering through dark caves in the Misty Mountains to find them.

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    • What level? I think bedrock 

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    • Also maybe a Lost man could be a denizen, they would have a miner like skin and random gear.

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    • Yeh i think so too

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    • Very close to bedrock, probably just above the level where caves are usually filled with lava. Lost miners would be interesting (as in from Moria?). If so they would still only be in the upper to middle areas at the deepest.

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    • Yeah, or people who have gone in and got lost. They would have lines like: 

      "Back shadow man! no, no no. Not today!"

      "He'll come someday, when the world's ablaze."

      "I'll be home soon, I'll be home"

      There would be a chance that he'll attack. He could be dwarven or human. 

      There could also be Shadows: Pitch black humoid figures with 20hp and 3dm.

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    • I have now posted a more detailed version of this idea here on the suggestions forum! If you liked this idea, please kudos it on the suggestions forum and/or let me know how to improve it! From now on please post all thoughts related to this idea on the suggestions forum thread, not here.

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:
      Well, there were only three to at most seven balrogs in existence. We know that two at least were slain before the War of Wrath, and doubtless most of the rest died in the War. I'd say there *might* be one imprizoned underground somewhere in Middle-earth, but not another under Moria.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

      It would be interesting to have one be in Rhun; maybe Sauron tryed to use it against Alatar and Pallando...(I'm writing a chronicle of their travels).

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    • Sauron would have no control of the balrogs how many balrogs do you know say " I think I'll go to rest here in a remote corner of the world so maybe someday two wizards can come beat my ass"

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    • Gandalf's description of his fall always gave me a Lovecraftian feel

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    • I like this idea a lot, mainly because it adds so much that Tolkien alludes to in his books that is not really clarified very well.  Thus, the mod team has the opportunity to be creative and make some creepy NPCs or mobs of their choosing.  Plus, it makes Mithril more valuable than it is presently.  Personally, I feel like Mithril isn't that valuable in the mod, and if it is this difficult to get, it is more of an accomplishment.  It also makes the Misties way more fun to challenge, and adds an entertaining adventure to this biome which honestly isn't as interesting as Tolkien describes it.

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    • The name of this new dimension ought to be The Underdeeps.

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    • 2001:5B0:2666:F5D0:280:AEFF:FE5F:50DB wrote:
      The name of this new dimension ought to be The Underdeeps

      Nooo! That is non-canon! The name of something canon has to be an actual name from the books.

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    • Should just be Roots of the Earth.

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    • Yes exactly @WoodenBox and @Kickratgames. Let's stick to lore names.

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    • May I remind you guys to pease post from now on onto this thread? Thanks.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • A FANDOM user
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