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  • What is this?

    I am suggesting that a new dimension be added beneath the Misty Mountains. Its mechanics will be based off of Utumno (with differences) but the environment will be very different. This will be the primary place where mithril ore is found. It will be a fantastic adventuring environment with breathtaking natural wonders, dazzling treasures, and challenging foes.


    Why?

    This is a way to make mithril more of a challenge to obtain. Less monotonous strip mining in the Misties, and more exploring the wonders and fighting the dangers in the deepest parts of the earth.


    Inspiration

    “The roots of those mountains must be roots indeed; there must be great secrets buried there which have not been discovered since the beginning.” - Gollum , as quoted by Gandalf, The Fellowship of the Ring

    “Goodness knows what the striking of matches and the smell of tobacco would have brought out of dark holes in that horrible place.” - The Hobbit

    “...And he thought, too, of nasty slimy things, with big bulging blind eyes, wriggling in the water. There are strange things living in the pools and lakes in the hearts of the mountains: fish whose fathers swam in, goodness only knows how many years ago, and never swam out again, while their eyes grew bigger and bigger from trying to see in the blackness; also there are other things more slimy than fish. Even in the tunnels and caves the Goblins have made for themselves there are other things living unbeknown to them that have sneaked in from outside to lie up in the dark. Some of these caves, too, go back in their beginnings to ages before the goblins, who only widened them and joined them up with passages, and the original owners are still there in odd corners, slinking and nosing about.” - The Hobbit

    “We fought far under the living earth, where time is not counted. Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels. They were not made by Durin’s Folk, Gimli son of Glóin. Far, far below the deepest delving of the dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day.” - Gandalf in the Two Towers


    How it is different from Utumno

    The Roots of the Mountains are indeed a dangerous place where many dark things live, but they are not just another Utumno. This dimension will be an opportunity for much more variety underground with caves and chasms and ruins. It will primarily be constructed of vanilla stone, and therefore players will be able to mine and dig much more easily. Portals will not take a player to a random place, but rather reliably take them to the same spot each time, making it easier for players to create large builds down here if they like. There will not be a magical beam of light to get you out - you have to climb back up to where you came in. There will be beautiful places as well as dark places. Durin’s Folk and Gundabad will both have some presence here, even if only in ruins, so any player will have a faction they can ally with. They will each have spheres of influence so that players earn alignment here. The monsters will be widely varied. Balrogs will not spawn here unless Durin’s Bane is added as a lore character. Tolkien is very, very vague about what is down here, but the few tantalizing hints he gives are inspiration enough, and the rest is up to our imaginations and creativity!


    Mechanics this shares with Utumno

    The Roots of the Mountains will be another underground dimension with portals similar to those of Utumno. These portals will not have a magical feel, but rather transition as smoothly as possible so that it feels like the player has just climbed down a little further into the depths of the earth.


    How you get there

    You will have to explore caves in the Misty Mountains. Very rarely portals will spawn, more commonly around Moria and Goblin-Town. Just above the level of the lava there will be a tunnel traveling downhill. This tunnel will be unique in that it will not get full of lava as it goes deeper. There will be two types: a natural / goblin tunnel, found throughout the mountains, appearing like a natural cave, and a Dwarven tunnel, which will be straight with a staircase traveling down. The Dwarven tunnel will only be found in a new Moria biome in the Overworld. This will end in a black wall, which is a portal. When the player steps into the portal, they will be transported to the Roots of the Mountains dimension, into a tunnel that continues downhill like a continuation of the one above. To get out, the player will have to go back to this portal and walk through. There will be no warmup time as with a Nether portal, rather the player is instantly transported more like an End portal, so it feels like they are just walking along a tunnel and no difference has happened (other than the loading screen of course). However once they go through the portal there will be a cooldown, probably about ten minutes, for which time they cannot use it again (cooldown is specific to the player / NPC rather than the portal - you can push a bunch of units in then go through). Perhaps there will also be one-way traps: vertical shafts which have a flat portal at the bottom. There will be no way to go back through these. One of these portals will spawn in the chasm beneath the Bridge of Khazad-dûm when Moria is added.


    What is down there

    The dimension will correspond to the Overworld geographically. It will have its own map, and different biomes and sub-biomes. It will be limited in size to the general area under the Misties and their foothills. Most of it will be the generic Roots of the Mountains biome, with a couple other biomes. There will be a Moria biome, centered under Caradhras. In this the difference will only be an increase in artificial delving generated in the upper reaches of the dimension. Other waypoints will include Roots of Celebdil, Roots of Caradhras, Roots of Fanuidhol, and Roots of Mount Gram. These waypoints will be at mid-depth and spawn caverns around them. Gollum’s Lake will be a waypoint on the shore of an underground lake (this will be where Gollum is found from now on). NOTE: I am not entirely sure if waypoints in this kind of dimension are possible so if this would not work that is ok.

    There is one thing that will lure nearly every player into these dangerous depths: an unquenchable lust for mithril. It is so valuable that players will go to any lengths to get more of it. This will be the new main place for mithril to spawn. The Moria biome in the Overworld would have greatly decreased chances of spawning ore and the ore would be removed from everywhere else in the Misties. However in the Moria biome in the Roots of the Mountains dimension, mithril could be found. It will have at least a minuscule chance of spawning at any depth, but will be most concentrated between, say, levels 30-70. The ore will not be found anywhere else in the dimension, but mithril and mithril items will be slightly more common loot throughout the dimension. Most of the dimension would be made out of vanilla stone. I think it would be good if white and black marble were added. These would spawn in huge sections underground, adding variety. Caves would be far more common here than in the Overworld - it should be nearly impossible to strip mine for more than a couple chunks without running into one. Crystals could be found in caves, and perhaps some unique gemstones would only spawn down here (as well as all the conventional ones). Caves would be full of exotic features and strange types of terrain. This would be controlled by sub-biomes. For example, caves in one sub-biome would tend to be full of giant mushrooms and crawling with mycelium, while caves in another sub-biome would have extra crystals. Here are some ideas:


    Sub-Biome examples

    - Mushrooms (giant mushrooms and mycelium in caves)

    - Crystals (much more common crystals)

    - Tunnels (narrow, fairly featureless but confusing winding and branching tunnels abound

    - Caverns ( slightly larger than the current caves, ordinary features)

    - Great Caverns (enormous cathedral caves where monumental stalactites and stalagmites abound)

    - Volcanic (caves would be made out of obsidian, lava is common flowing and in pools)

    Water would fill all caves below a certain deep level, say for example level 30. Mithril would be more rare deeper than this level. From now on Diamonds and Opal would be exclusive to this dimension.


    Torches

    The player can place torches to see better in the caves. However this foreign light is likely to attract unwelcome visitors. If you place a torch, the spawning rate of creatures within a certain radius will increase. Additionally there is a minor chance of a swarm of Gundabad bats spawning and attacking you. Any of the other Earth Gnawers and Forgotten Things will be able to perceive the light from very far away, and begin burrowing quickly towards it.

    This mechanic will not be limited to torches. Any light source artificially placed, including fire, burning furnaces, glowing bricks, etc. will attract enemies. Smoking will have an even higher chance of attracting enemies.


    Blindness - Two Options

    Players who spend their time in the deep will eventually experience a deterioration of their sense of sight. This blindness will be more subtle than the regular effect - maybe it could be called “Cave Blindness” or something. It will be another challenge of the deep. There are two ways it could be implemented:

    1. The player would go blind in the cave. After a somewhat randomized, very long period of time, blindness would slowly overtake the player until they could see nothing. It will leave if they return to sunlight.

    2. The player would slowly adjust to the darkness. The more continuous time they spent in the Roots of the Mountains, especially without torches, the more they would adjust to it and the better they could see. However, upon surfacing again, the sunlight would severely blind them for a long period of time (say 5-10 minutes). Milk buckets would not get rid of this blindness, but Athelas Brew and Jungle Remedy would. If this scenario is chosen, upon experiencing blindness when resurfacing the player would get the achievement [Hibernation Sickness].


    Claiming Territory

    Since the portal reliably takes players to the same place each time, and most of the blocks are mineable with ordinary equipment, players will be able to make epic fortresses in the deep. These places are dangerous, however - only Banners placed on mithril blocks will successfully claim land (they will claim as much as a gold block).


    New Blocks

    - White marble - a very hard stone taking 1.5 seconds to mine with an iron pickaxe (anything lower and it will drop nothing). Four white marble can be crafted on a Dwarven crafting table to give four polished white marble. There are no marble bricks. White marble spawns exclusively in the Roots of the Mountains dimension, in large pockets.

    - Black marble - functions the same as white marble, except takes 2 seconds to mine with an iron pickaxe. Like white marble, it can be crafted into a polished variant but not bricks. It spawns in much larger but less common pockets than white marble. It can be found throughout the Roots of the Mountains, as well as occasionally in the Moria biome in the Overworld.

    - Gundabad Bricks: Dark bricks with a crude appearance crafted on a Gundabad crafting table, will have a pillar, carved, and slab variant. The carved variant will have an ugly face on it.

    - Wooden Spikes: Crafted on a regular crafting table, these resemble stalagmites except that they can be placed on any surface, and will point away from the surface they were placed on. They continually damage anyone standing on them by very little.

    - Iron Spikes: These can only be crafted on a Gundabad or Angmar crafting table. They look rusty and act like wooden spikes, except they deal much more damage.

    - Quartz Crystals: These would not spawn in an ore, but rather as crystals themselves. They would be constructed from two flat planes in an X shape like a plant, and spawn in patches on the floors, walls, and ceilings of caves.


    Generated Structures

    Moria Structures

    All these would be in the upper reaches of the dimension, limited to the Moria biome. They would also be in the Moria biome in the Overworld. Most of it would be looted; chests would have rotten flesh, orc bones, Dwarf bones, dirt, gravel, and Gundabad and Dwarven weapons and armour. Mithril could be found but it would be very scarce. Skulls are littered on the ground, and spiderwebs occasionally spawn on the ceiling. It would be cool if the player walking made louder noise and echoes here.

    - Moria Tunnels: These tunnels would be larger than the current Dwarven mines, and dark, partially lined with Dwarven bricks. They would travel in straight lines and follow staircases downwards.

    - Moria Wells: Rather annoying shafts, only a couple blocks wide, spawning randomly in the floor of any Moria structure, and plunging down to unknown depths.

    - Moria Shafts: These would be large vertical shafts with some Dwarven bricks, similar to the entrance to current Dwarven mines. Some would have spiral stairs going down.

    - Moria Smithies: Large underground rooms with many Dwarven forges.

    - Moria Storehouses: Mostly looted, these would contain little bits of food such as bread, cram, cooked chicken, steak, and Dwarven ale.

    - Moria Guardrooms: These would be long rooms lined with armour stands, most of these would be empty but there would be a small chance for a piece or two of Dwarven armour to remain on each stand.

    - Moria Weapon Storehouse: A room with the walls lined with weapon racks, many weapons would still be here.

    - Moria Strongholds: Sprawling fortified places with broken gates. They would contain larger and more frequent guardrooms, more storehouses (especially weapon storehouses), and smaller tunnels.

    - Moria Treasury: A room where the Dwarves of Moria used to store their treasures. There is a 95% chance it has been looted. Every so often there will be a treasury intact full treasure piles and chests with valuable loot (including a little bit of mithril). Goblets and golden ale-horns will be scattered around, and there will be a few armour stands with Trimmed Dwarven Armour (any kind) and even possibly Mithril Armour.


    Other Structures

    - Goblin Tunnel: Basic tunnel, winding and confusing, lit occasionally with torches, and branching into other tunnels. If they intersect a large cave, the bottom of the tunnel will be lined with wood planks and sloppy fences topped with torches will spawn on either side (similar to how a bridge spawns in water), making hanging bridges passing through caverns.

    - Spider Colony: A small maze of tunnels filled with cave spiders and spider webs.

    - Cave-Troll House: A crudely fashioned house cut into the stone with a doorway opening on a cave. There would be chests with large amounts of items such as leather, rotten flesh, cobblestone, mushrooms, string, orc bones, troll-bones, roast mutton, cooked beef, cooked chicken, flint, clay, dirt, gravel, pebbles, coal, and other similar items. Occasionally some nuggets of metal (even mithril) or a ring. There would also be a chance of spawning a few treasure piles and a chest of treasure, like a regular Troll-hoard. There would be two variants: occupied and abandoned. The occupied variant would be lit with torches and contain a Cave-Troll, and the abandoned variant would not. Both variants are fairly common.


    Mobs

    - Gundabad Bats: Enormous bats hanging on the cave ceilings on upper reaches of the caves. They will only be present at Goblin Town and north of there. They will have 5 hearts and deal 2 attack damage. They will attack anything not allied with Gundabad.

    - Cave Spiders: Not the vanilla mob, but a larger and stronger black spider that inflicts poison for a few seconds.

    - Cave-Troll: See here. They will be frequently found wandering the deep caves.

    - Cave-Fish: Blind pale fish swimming in the lakes and streams down here; they are the only fish that can be caught if you fish here. They will not restore as much hunger as regular fish, and they will not tame Gollum as easily as regular fish (he is tired of them).

    There will be other creatures down here as hinted at by Tolkien, with names like Earth Gnawers and Nameless Things. They will be hostile to everyone (even each other) and fairly rare. Physically they will vary enormously - some will be like the Watcher in the Water. Maybe some could be like giant bugs such as centipedes, others will be humanoid. They will spawn at any level in the dimension, more frequently the lower levels. They will have very high health and attack strength. Some will be able to dig through stone and carve long winding tunnels. They will be the most frequent danger encountered by players mining deep for mithril. The ones able to dig will spawn in cavities in the rock, and if a player is nearby they will begin to burrow towards it (otherwise they will burrow randomly). This will make strip mining much more dangerous than otherwise.


    Please note

    All the structures and creatures listed above are optional. This is just my idea on HOW to implement this suggestion, but it can be implemented differently. These things also are not all necessary - this dimension could be done just fine without the addition of, say, Balrogs or Dragons.


    Credits

    - Most of this suggestion is based off of the idea brought up here.

    - I had not seen this suggestion at the time I made the original post, but I have derived some minor ideas from it since it was brought to my attention.

    - Credit to Fandalf for the names Earth Gnawers and Forgotten Things and some ideas about the portals, also the awesome cave-fish textures and some ideas about them.

    - Credit to TheblueWizard for the idea of quartz spawning here and obsidian-lined volcanic tunnels.

    - Credit to FANDOM User 96.4.180.37 for the invertebrate body type idea.

    - Credit to FANDOM User 2A02:120B:C3EE:E400:F879:CECC:BA9F:8A36 for the echoes and the relic Dwarven armour ideas.

    - Credit to Rocket Engineer for this thread. A few of the ideas (like marble) in this suggestion are derived from / inspired by it.

    - Credit to S’moregoth for cave fish’s decreased ability to tame Gollum and the idea of claiming requiring mithril blocks.

    - Credit to Legoarmy505 for the idea of more creatures spawning when you plant a torch.

    - The idea of blindness was my own, but it was inspired by a comment from Lord Ironbeard.

    - If you think your idea is in here and not properly credited, do not hesitate to let me know.

    EDIT: Added portal cooldown (my own idea).

    EDIT: Removed Dragons (though I still think they would be awesome).

    EDIT: Added quartz texture

    EDIT: Removed Goblins and most of the ideas and variations for them. I like a lot of the ideas brought forwards, but ultimately this suggestion is not about adding goblins whether or not they are included in this dimension (and the community has decided that they should not be included). Changed cave fish and added mithril block banner requirement from S’moregoth.

    EDIT: Added dangers of planting torches and blindness effect.

    Textures

    Here are some possible textures for some of the things suggested here. There are the cave fish textures for the mob and the item. There is also a possible obsidian retexture to improve the appearance of obsidian caves (as suggested in the caves thread by Rocket Engineer), black marble, polished black marble, white marble, and polished white marble. Last is my attempt at a quartz crystal texture to replace Nether Quartz. This would be the texture for both the block and the item.

    Blind Fish pic 1
    Blind Fish pic 2
    D331F315-603D-4CE1-98DB-88896E65B1C1
    B1A2E125-9F49-40D9-B986-60C6C7B7E29A
    E25AC1F4-D9C8-402A-A090-06B43C9B68C8
    711ADB5A-A7A3-4620-A989-34CFE4066F8A
    B83B54ED-83B0-426C-B7A8-B3F163457DAA
    E54B1352-A498-45E2-8A7F-2C7722E8D807
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    • Looks pretty good. A few changes:

      - I'd say no Orcs or Dwarves should be down here. The Orcs appear to be terrified of the deep, and ofc Dwarves aren't in the Misties.

      - Dragons should be confined to the overworld Grey Mountains imo

      - There should be lots of flooded areas.

      - Marble should be found in the Overworld--Tower of Ecthelion, anyone?

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

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    • Doesn’t Gondor Rock take the place of marble for Gondor in the mod? Also if Gondor Rock is supposed to be marble it should just be renamed and would be the same marble found here (finding “Gondor Rock” in the Roots of the Mountains would be weird). If they are separate things, both types of marble could be found in veins in the White Mountains.

      Orcs would only be very high up. Dwarven ruins also are only very high up. If we remove Orcs, should the ruins still spawn down here?

      I put water as filling all caves below a certain depth. Should higher up caves spawn with lakes sometimes? I thought that would be good but if a cave intersects a flooded cave it could really end up weird. I was thinking of Dragons as a very rare foe, though of course it will be fine without them.

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    • This may be unnecessary, but I think it would be interesting if players and overworld mobs took heat damage below a certain depth, because realistically, the deeper you go, the warmer it gets.

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    • Maybe this should just be in the normal world. Except without mobs and stuff and like for example if you are in the dark for to long u start taking damage from the deep dark. 

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    • Lord Ironbeard wrote: Maybe this should just be in the normal world. Except without mobs and stuff and like for example if you are in the dark for to long u start taking damage from the deep dark. 

      This would work fine for new worlds run on super beefy computers, but already partly generated worlds this would cause so many problems.

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    • I don't think banners should work here. Otherwise the entrance will be locked up so only 1 person can use the dimension.

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    • @707Mithrandir: Heat damage would be awesome. It would have to be below the level where caves are filled with water, so maybe level 20?

      @Lord Ironbeard: I wouldn’t say you would take damage from being in the dark. However what about a chance of getting long-lasting blindness (the longer you are there the greater the chance)? That would be realistic - people can go blind if they are in the dark of a cave for too long.

      @707Mithrandir again: I don’t see why this would be worse than Utumno.

      @Direranger50: There will be many entrances scattered randomly across the Misty Mountains. So any players will be able to find them if they explore caves for long enough. I would allow functionality of banners so that players could make epic bases here if they wanted.

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    • @Ithilion: In retrospective, I am thinking about removing a lot of info about Goblins and Orcs and structures. Maybe these should be saved for a different suggestion (regardless of whether or not they are present). What do you think?

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    • AlteOgre
      AlteOgre removed this reply because:
      Needless.
      03:36, October 21, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • AlteOgre
      AlteOgre removed this reply because:
      Needless.
      03:39, October 21, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • I am very glad you posted this!  YOu did very well, and I seriously hope that the majority of this is added soon!  Here are my thoughts:

      • No Goblins, as Ithilion said. Some ruins should still spawn here, though.
      • Goblin Town should not be here. This is (as far as I can tell) very, very far down, and I doubt the Goblins would have built and kept such a base if they feared that nameless things may break in and kill them all at any time.
      • Gollum should only spawn at the very highest part of the dimension. Also, there should always be a natural portal to somewhere very close to Gollum's cave under the High Pass.
      • Cave fish should not make it easier to tame Gollum, but it should instead be the opposite, in my opinion. He would be much more grateful for something juicy brought from the world above than for the same food that he's had for the last hundred or so years.
      • No mobs down here should be allied with anyone. Even Cave Trolls would probably be starved enough to eat an orc.
      • I don't think heat damage should be possible - the real-life molten core of the Earth does not translate into Tolkien's works. The sun and moon travel under the earth, through a ton of caves, water, and stuff, to get back to Valinor, where they rest before going across Middle-earth once more.

      I know that it is a large pile of thoughts, but you don't necessarily have to change anything because of them - they are just my opinion.

      EDIT:  One more thing!  What if banners could work, but they need a block of Mithril to do any good?  I don't think that this should be a place where you can easily ensure safety.

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    • Ok good thoughts!

      - I will remove goblins

      - Fair point

      - Agreed. Gollum is not very deep.

      - That logic makes sense I will edit my post

      - I should have specified this. Of course they will attack everyone (even evil players / creatures)

      - Let’s go with no heat damage, just blindness.

      - I like the mithril block idea. It would be more difficult to build a safe place.

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    • I like the idea of this, how about when you light a torch the spawn right of creatures increases by 3, or smoke.

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    • I don't get why there can't be goblins; this is an extension to the overworld and the nameless things and Earth Knawers would spawn on the deeper levels.  It is not a portal to the roots it is an extension to get to the roots

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    • @Legoarmy505: Awesome idea! I will add this.

      @Fandalf: I agree. The main reason I removed them is because this is not just a suggestion to add goblins. It’s pretty controversial so we should just focus on the main idea of the dimension.

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    • Sir Lazuli wrote:

      [...]

      How you get there You will have to explore caves in the Misty Mountains. Very rarely portals will spawn, more commonly around Moria and Goblin-Town. Just above the level of the lava there will be a tunnel traveling downhill.

      [...]

      Lava should not be found in the Misities (in the middle earth dimention), because if there is lava, all what is under that would be flooded by lava too, but as the roots are not, lava shouldn't spawn there.

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    • Good point, though that may mean caves that are not portals would just run straight into bedrock.

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    • These caves could be filled with water

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    • The caves at the bottom of the Misties but above the Roots of the Mountains? That might be a good idea. Maybe that is where Gollum’s lake would be.

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    • Amazing idea! I have a small suggestion though... Special lore books could be found in chests in Moria structures that might be similar to what the fellowship finds in LOTR (like a journal).

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    • Yes that would be awesome! If this is added it would definitely need some cool lore texts.

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    • Provided we can get the content lol.

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    • Yes. We could all help but I think we should wait until we know if this is actually added so it’s not just a waste of time.

      By the way, this suggestion has 21 kudos so I believe it’s endorsed.

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    • welp looks good, I would kudos for the cave fish alone.

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    • Yes Fandalf’s textures are awesome!

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    • Personally I think you could have two enterances to it one at a possible Easter egg of durins stair and another under khazad dum

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    • Yeah Durin’s stair would make a good entrance / exit, as it was used in the book. But I wouldn’t limit the entrances to only two.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • I wouldn't but I would say those are the big points of interest and the other portals should be randomly spawned under level 16 only rarely and above 16 only very very rarely

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    • Yes. Players would have to wander the deepest reaches of dangerous caverns to find a way down.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • 707Mithrandir wrote:
      This may be unnecessary, but I think it would be interesting if players and overworld mobs took heat damage below a certain depth, because realistically, the deeper you go, the warmer it gets.

      Actually, it gets colder first, then hatter. So the deeper areas should have an effect like Forodwaith, seeing as it's to far from the sun to be warmed, & also to far from the core to be hot, or even moderatly warm.

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    • 168.216.131.98 wrote:

      707Mithrandir wrote:
      This may be unnecessary, but I think it would be interesting if players and overworld mobs took heat damage below a certain depth, because realistically, the deeper you go, the warmer it gets.

      Actually, it gets colder first, then hatter. So the deeper areas should have an effect like Forodwaith, seeing as it's to far from the sun to be warmed, & also to far from the core to be hot, or even moderatly warm.

      This is a reasonable line of logic, but I’m worried it would make this place too much like another Utumno with ice, obsidian, and fire levels. That is not the idea.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • 168.216.131.98 wrote:
      707Mithrandir wrote:
      This may be unnecessary, but I think it would be interesting if players and overworld mobs took heat damage below a certain depth, because realistically, the deeper you go, the warmer it gets.
      Actually, it gets colder first, then hatter. So the deeper areas should have an effect like Forodwaith, seeing as it's to far from the sun to be warmed, & also to far from the core to be hot, or even moderatly warm.

      That is also based on real-life, not Middle Earth.  I don't know what Tolkien was intending when he wrote The Lord of the Rings, but in the Silmarillion, he specifically states that the Sun and Moon (which are actually a Fruit from the Golden Tree and a Flower from the Silver Tree, respectively) are driven by Maiar in chariots (or something like that), and that they return to Valinor by going through caves under Arda.

      Because of that, it might be interesting if you would be able to see the Sun or Moon if you tunneled through the bottom layer . . .

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    • Or perhaps a set structure called tunnel of the trees

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    • S'moregoth wrote:
      168.216.131.98 wrote:
      707Mithrandir wrote:
      This may be unnecessary, but I think it would be interesting if players and overworld mobs took heat damage below a certain depth, because realistically, the deeper you go, the warmer it gets.
      Actually, it gets colder first, then hatter. So the deeper areas should have an effect like Forodwaith, seeing as it's to far from the sun to be warmed, & also to far from the core to be hot, or even moderatly warm.
      That is also based on real-life, not Middle Earth.  I don't know what Tolkien was intending when he wrote The Lord of the Rings, but in the Silmarillion, he specifically states that the Sun and Moon (which are actually a Fruit from the Golden Tree and a Flower from the Silver Tree, respectively) are driven by Maiar in chariots (or something like that), and that they return to Valinor by going through caves under Arda.

      Because of that, it might be interesting if you would be able to see the Sun or Moon if you tunneled through the bottom layer . . .

      Tolkien actually tried to revise this later in life, thinking it was too unrealistic. He never wrote it out in a finished format, but mapped out how exactly it would work. Since Arda is Earth, I imagine the geology would also be the same.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

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    • actually, first off.

      There should be a few goblins that occasionally spawn near Gollum's caves. Why? The book mentions that sometimes they fancy fish and such. Second off, and though I'm sure this would be impossible, but it might be fun to add, I think that maybe, there should be some kind of tribes for the more humanoid species, and possibly even be able to befriend some. There would be food enough with everyone down there killing each other, and they would probably be very uncivilized and weak, but it'd be a cool addition imo.

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    • @Ithilion: That sounds reasonable, but since he didn’t finish I’m just sticking with what was published.

      @Fandom User: Goblins would occasionally come down to Gollum’s lake. I am not sure about another humanoid species though.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • Sir Lazuli wrote:

      168.216.131.98 wrote:

      707Mithrandir wrote:
      This may be unnecessary, but I think it would be interesting if players and overworld mobs took heat damage below a certain depth, because realistically, the deeper you go, the warmer it gets.

      Actually, it gets colder first, then hatter. So the deeper areas should have an effect like Forodwaith, seeing as it's to far from the sun to be warmed, & also to far from the core to be hot, or even moderatly warm.

      This is a reasonable line of logic, but I’m worried it would make this place too much like another Utumno with ice, obsidian, and fire levels. That is not the idea.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

      Go down in the earth's crust about a half mile. It'll be very cold because the is no source of heat. the surface is warmed by the sun, while the deep crust/mantle is warmed by the core. The in between area has no heat source, & therefore would be cold. I didn't say it would be like Utumno, just that it would be cold. Also, it would be far deeper where it starts heating up again, so it would be coldest at the bottom of the dimension.

      For the humanoid species, I could see something down there, but with all the large carnivores/hostiles, I don't see any civilizations.

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    • Sir Lazuli wrote:
      @Ithilion: That sounds reasonable, but since he didn’t finish I’m just sticking with what was published.

      @Fandom User: Goblins would occasionally come down to Gollum’s lake. I am not sure about another humanoid species though.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

      Obviously Gollum would need to be hostile to goblins as there was a reason they didn't go down too often.. heheh...

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    • Sir Lazuli wrote:
      @Ithilion: That sounds reasonable, but since he didn’t finish I’m just sticking with what was published.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

      Well, it was published, in HoME. We shouldn't forget, the Silmarillion isn't fully canonical, not to the extent of the later HoME texts or the Lord of the Rings. Christopher Tolkien has said there are many problems with it, and even regrets publishing it as a finished narrative.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:

      Sir Lazuli wrote:
      @Ithilion: That sounds reasonable, but since he didn’t finish I’m just sticking with what was published.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

      Well, it was published, in HoME. We shouldn't forget, the Silmarillion isn't fully canonical, not to the extent of the later HoME texts or the Lord of the Rings. Christopher Tolkien has said there are many problems with it, and even regrets publishing it as a finished narrative.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

      Fair enough. If it’s canon, then go with it. Heat damage should happen if that was Arda’s structure.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:
      S'moregoth wrote:
      168.216.131.98 wrote:
      707Mithrandir wrote:
      This may be unnecessary, but I think it would be interesting if players and overworld mobs took heat damage below a certain depth, because realistically, the deeper you go, the warmer it gets.
      Actually, it gets colder first, then hatter. So the deeper areas should have an effect like Forodwaith, seeing as it's to far from the sun to be warmed, & also to far from the core to be hot, or even moderatly warm.
      That is also based on real-life, not Middle Earth.  I don't know what Tolkien was intending when he wrote The Lord of the Rings, but in the Silmarillion, he specifically states that the Sun and Moon (which are actually a Fruit from the Golden Tree and a Flower from the Silver Tree, respectively) are driven by Maiar in chariots (or something like that), and that they return to Valinor by going through caves under Arda.

      Because of that, it might be interesting if you would be able to see the Sun or Moon if you tunneled through the bottom layer . . .

      Tolkien actually tried to revise this later in life, thinking it was too unrealistic. He never wrote it out in a finished format, but mapped out how exactly it would work. Since Arda is Earth, I imagine the geology would also be the same.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)

      Ok.  Sorry.

      I have only read the Silmarillion, The Hobbit, and The Lord of the Rings.  (I would like to read more of his stuff, but I have a ton of books to read for school, already.)

      It does make sense for him to revise it, but I really like the whole Silmarillion creation stuff, so I am very partial to it.  :)

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    • Swordsbane wrote:

      Sir Lazuli wrote:

      168.216.131.98 wrote:

      707Mithrandir wrote:
      This may be unnecessary, but I think it would be interesting if players and overworld mobs took heat damage below a certain depth, because realistically, the deeper you go, the warmer it gets.
      Actually, it gets colder first, then hatter. So the deeper areas should have an effect like Forodwaith, seeing as it's to far from the sun to be warmed, & also to far from the core to be hot, or even moderatly warm.
      This is a reasonable line of logic, but I’m worried it would make this place too much like another Utumno with ice, obsidian, and fire levels. That is not the idea.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

      Go down in the earth's crust about a half mile. It'll be very cold because the is no source of heat. the surface is warmed by the sun, while the deep crust/mantle is warmed by the core. The in between area has no heat source, & therefore would be cold. I didn't say it would be like Utumno, just that it would be cold. Also, it would be far deeper where it starts heating up again, so it would be coldest at the bottom of the dimension.

      For the humanoid species, I could see something down there, but with all the large carnivores/hostiles, I don't see any civilizations.

      Um, hello? Did any one see this?

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    • 168.216.131.98 wrote:

      Swordsbane wrote:

      Sir Lazuli wrote:

      168.216.131.98 wrote:

      707Mithrandir wrote:
      This may be unnecessary, but I think it would be interesting if players and overworld mobs took heat damage below a certain depth, because realistically, the deeper you go, the warmer it gets.
      Actually, it gets colder first, then hatter. So the deeper areas should have an effect like Forodwaith, seeing as it's to far from the sun to be warmed, & also to far from the core to be hot, or even moderatly warm.
      This is a reasonable line of logic, but I’m worried it would make this place too much like another Utumno with ice, obsidian, and fire levels. That is not the idea.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

      Go down in the earth's crust about a half mile. It'll be very cold because the is no source of heat. the surface is warmed by the sun, while the deep crust/mantle is warmed by the core. The in between area has no heat source, & therefore would be cold. I didn't say it would be like Utumno, just that it would be cold. Also, it would be far deeper where it starts heating up again, so it would be coldest at the bottom of the dimension.

      For the humanoid species, I could see something down there, but with all the large carnivores/hostiles, I don't see any civilizations.

      Um, hello? Did any one see this?

      The extreme pressure from the mountains above produces enough heat to keep temperatures above freezing. Also, Minecraft is much smaller in scale than earth, so the bottom of this dimension would be probably at least 3 miles deep, not just 1/2 mile deep.

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    • 707Mithrandir wrote:

      168.216.131.98 wrote:

      Swordsbane wrote:

      Sir Lazuli wrote:

      168.216.131.98 wrote:

      707Mithrandir wrote:
      This may be unnecessary, but I think it would be interesting if players and overworld mobs took heat damage below a certain depth, because realistically, the deeper you go, the warmer it gets.
      Actually, it gets colder first, then hatter. So the deeper areas should have an effect like Forodwaith, seeing as it's to far from the sun to be warmed, & also to far from the core to be hot, or even moderatly warm.
      This is a reasonable line of logic, but I’m worried it would make this place too much like another Utumno with ice, obsidian, and fire levels. That is not the idea.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

      Go down in the earth's crust about a half mile. It'll be very cold because the is no source of heat. the surface is warmed by the sun, while the deep crust/mantle is warmed by the core. The in between area has no heat source, & therefore would be cold. I didn't say it would be like Utumno, just that it would be cold. Also, it would be far deeper where it starts heating up again, so it would be coldest at the bottom of the dimension.

      For the humanoid species, I could see something down there, but with all the large carnivores/hostiles, I don't see any civilizations.

      Um, hello? Did any one see this?

      The extreme pressure from the mountains above produces enough heat to keep temperatures above freezing. Also, Minecraft is much smaller in scale than earth, so the bottom of this dimension would be probably at least 3 miles deep, not just 1/2 mile deep.

      Did some research, & it's actually 75 degrees F 3 miles deep, not hot enough to fry you (110+ F)... Therefor, there would be no frost or heat effect.

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    • Swordsbane wrote:

      707Mithrandir wrote:

      168.216.131.98 wrote:

      Swordsbane wrote:

      Sir Lazuli wrote:

      168.216.131.98 wrote:

      707Mithrandir wrote:
      This may be unnecessary, but I think it would be interesting if players and overworld mobs took heat damage below a certain depth, because realistically, the deeper you go, the warmer it gets.
      Actually, it gets colder first, then hatter. So the deeper areas should have an effect like Forodwaith, seeing as it's to far from the sun to be warmed, & also to far from the core to be hot, or even moderatly warm.
      This is a reasonable line of logic, but I’m worried it would make this place too much like another Utumno with ice, obsidian, and fire levels. That is not the idea.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

      Go down in the earth's crust about a half mile. It'll be very cold because the is no source of heat. the surface is warmed by the sun, while the deep crust/mantle is warmed by the core. The in between area has no heat source, & therefore would be cold. I didn't say it would be like Utumno, just that it would be cold. Also, it would be far deeper where it starts heating up again, so it would be coldest at the bottom of the dimension.

      For the humanoid species, I could see something down there, but with all the large carnivores/hostiles, I don't see any civilizations.

      Um, hello? Did any one see this?

      The extreme pressure from the mountains above produces enough heat to keep temperatures above freezing. Also, Minecraft is much smaller in scale than earth, so the bottom of this dimension would be probably at least 3 miles deep, not just 1/2 mile deep.

      Did some research, & it's actually 75 degrees F 3 miles deep, not hot enough to fry you (110+ F)... Therefor, there would be no frost or heat effect.

      Well, I believe that settles it. Hot core or no hot core, there will be no heat damage.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • 3 miles deep in a mountain?

      Assuming the height of the Mistys is comparable to that of the Alps (Mistys ranging from Y~130-Y~200, Alps commonly reaching heights of 3,000 meters or more), that's nearly 2 1/2 miles deep, + an additional 255 blocks, which (if the Mistys Alps comparison is accurate), would be another ~3 miles. That's 5 1/2 miles deep, and there is extra pressure from the plates forming the Mistys, so I'm assuming higher temperatures than 75° F.

      Edit: The deepest mine currently (TauTona Mine), at approximately 2.4 miles deep reaches temperatures of 55° C. I'm not sure if it's measured from sea Level, or ground level. http://www.mining-technology.com/projects/tautona_goldmine/

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    • For every mile bellow sea level, temperature goes up about 15 degrees F, but am exception is that it's much colder where tectonic plates meet, because rock is pushed down faster than it can heat up. It is 3 miles bellow sea level, correct?

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    • Guys let’s just not do heat damage. When Gandalf describes falling down into the abyss beneath the Bridge of Khazad-Dûm he says he fell to the foundations of stone. He describes falling into a lake where the Balrog’s fire is quenched. Nothing about it seems hot. Maybe we should just not do heat damage.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • That's what I just said!

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    • "Dwarves of Moria: No. Just no. This is the Third Age, people. There are zero Moria Dwarves at this time."

      -What Not To Suggest

      I think that applies to the biome aswell.

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    • 81.11.244.249 wrote: "Dwarves of Moria: No. Just no. This is the Third Age, people. There are zero Moria Dwarves at this time."

      -What Not To Suggest

      I think that applies to the biome aswell.

      Where did I say the Dwarves of Moria would be present? All I said was ruins. I don’t get what the problem is.

      As for the biome, it is brought forth in an original, concrete, and specific manner and it is not just a biome but a new dimension. I believe it is fine.

      I would really appreciate it if you would read through the suggestion and then provide meaningful feedback instead of just jumping to mini-modding without even taking the time to see what I said. In fact, if you want to see why I came to a lot of the decisions please read the precursor here as well.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • I saw the word "centipede" and kudoed.

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    • AlteOgre
      AlteOgre removed this reply because:
      Needless. Let the guy know we have a kudo option for such posts.
      21:34, January 12, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Tbh, this is the best suggestion I've seen in a thread so far.

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    • Thank you! I think this would make a fantastic addition to the game.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • I would also suggest making the portal look exactly or almost exactly like stone block, and a random y-layer would be made this portal block.

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    • I don’t know about that. They would only be very deep. If the portals looked just like stone blocks, then players wouldn’t know they were there. The point is to make it look like a continuous cave from one dimension to the next.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • OHMYGOSH!!! You ARE A GENIUS MY FRIEND! This will be game changing!!

      I do have a suggestion though:

      Dwarven Armory- the armory of the dwarves, long gone. I doubt very much the armor would be as rare as you say... the nameless things and forgotten things and whatnot, they would have no use for this, and orcs would not dare go down there, as they are as scared of this deep as is everyone else. NOW. The suggestion is that most of the armor stands WOULD have dwarven armor, but all of it would be in horrible condition, broken, old etc. Perhaps even some new modifiers? Shattering- breaks a lot quicker, crude (already added) You know what I mean.

      This would come from being underground for so long, left away from all else.

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    • Great suggestion!

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    • A FANDOM user
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