• If the kudos button does not seem to work when you click it, please comment below stating that you would like to give kudos. Note that you are not the only one with this problem; it is a technical issue with Fandom at this time. For more information see this thread.

    What is this?

    The purpose of this suggestion is to make forging require more skill in a way that should not be overly complicated or unnecessarily difficult to implement.

    I have been putting this together for a long time, and first mentioned the idea in this suggestion by S’moregoth. While a slightly different system is laid out there, it is actually a fantastic suggestion and a lot of ideas there would work well with this system, like having workability level for every material.

    The basic idea is that you will need to heat up metal weapons and armor to reforge or repair them more effectively, and if you heat them up too much they melt. The amount of heat determines the tier of modifiers you can get from reforging, as well as the likelihood of getting modifiers (and likelihood of good versus bad). Other wooden, stone, leather, etc. weapons and items are more crude and do not need to be heated up to work with.

    How it works

    In order to heat things up, I had originally planned on holding an item in tongs. But that is kinda weird and would be difficult to do. Now I am thinking the player would need a special furnace, called a Blacksmith Forge or Smithing Furnace or something to that effect. Either this would be uncraftable (only obtainable from any blacksmith trader or their generated structures) or craftable on a regular crafting table.

    It would be really great if the blacksmith forge were made to look like a pit of coal, as with real blacksmiths. Any piece of metal (or partially metal) equipment can be placed in this forge. Ex. Iron / bronze / gold / mithril armor, all metal swords, axes, hammers, spears, lances, and other weapons with a metal tip, iron and faction shovels and pickaxes, etc. Not chain-mail armor, and part leather armor (like ranger armor or Rohirric armor), wooden or stone tools or weapons, etc.

    The player then needs to right click the blacksmith forge to open its GUI. They will put the object in and some fuel. It would be cool if the forge could use any adjacent lava blocks as an infinite source of heat. This is unrealistic, but it would make those lava blocks in blacksmith shops more useful. The mechanics for this system would work better with a steady source of heat rather than a certain amount of fuel. The weapon will slowly heat up, getting hotter around every 10-20 seconds. This should be somewhat randomized so that there aren’t specific fuel recipes for each heat level. Some metals would melt faster than others; mithril would be very slow. Additionally modifiers could affect this speed: cooling, unwithering, and Belegostian would slow down the heating process proportionally (additionally chilling), and infernal would speed it up.

    The heat would be treated as a temporary modifier. It would have several levels, in order below:

    1. Red-hot

    2. Orange-hot

    3. Yellow-hot

    4. White-hot

    Hot items would be covered in a simple shimmering overlay of their color like the purple color for vanilla enchanted items, but this would either be red, orange, yellow, or white.

    Upon removing the item from the forge, it would have a chance to cool down to the previous level every few seconds, resulting in the heat lingering and diminishing over a couple minutes after removal.

    If the item is still held in the fire while it is white-hot, it will soon begin to melt, losing its durability over the course of about 10-20 seconds until it melts away, leaving nothing left. This process will not give ingots - that is what an unsmeltery is for. Right-clicking a cauldron or regular water with a hot item in tongs will cool it down instantly, using up one increment of the water’s depth (cauldrons only) for each level of heat. Extreme thermal shock can damage materials, so cooling a yellow-hot or white-hot item in water will damage its durability slightly.

    It would be cool if there were some kind of blacksmith’s glove item you could wear. Perhaps the best way to do this is have them sell the blacksmith’s apron. When equipped in the chestplate slot, it would show the player not only wearing an apron but gloves as well. This will protect from the heat. Maybe there is a better way to do this though. Without any gloves, the hot items will deal fire damage to the player. It will be dealt once per second and with magnitude proportional to the heat rate. Wearing white-hot armour is not recommended either. Glowing weapons will also deal heat damage to enemies proportional to the hotness (something like one extra point of damage per level, they will not set enemies on fire), but they will lose a lot of durability if used hot and have a chance of getting new bad modifiers like stunted, blunt, short, etc and losing good modifiers. The same goes for armor.

    Now suppose you heat up your item, then open the anvil GUI. You can then repair and reforge the item. The system would change so that:

    > Repairing an item could be done cold.

    > Repairing an item hot would require less material. The hotter it is, the less material it would require.

    > You could not reforge an item cold. It has to have some degree of heat.

    > The hotter the item is, the more extreme the modifiers will be. For example.

    • Red-hot items will hardly ever get any modifiers. Very rarely plain ones like long or short, poor or sluggish, mostly good modifiers when they happen.
    • Orange-hot items would frequently get tier one modifiers, like cooling, lucky, glancing, hardy, and the ones mentioned above. About an equal chance to get good or bad modifiers. The tough modifier could not be created from orange-hot items.
    • Yellow-hot items could get everything before, as well as get tier two modifiers, like crude, strongshod, fortunate, nimble, silken, hulking, crooked, lasting, etc. They would have a higher chance of getting bad modifiers, and also would be the minimum heat required for tough armor.
    • White-hot items would get all the others as well as tier three modifiers like blessed, mighty, Eölean, Belegostian, lightfooted, hasty, etc. and very rarely tier four modifiers like legendary. They would receive bad modifiers much more often than good ones. This would be the only heat at which the steadfast modifier could be obtained.

    > On the whole, white-hot items would receive modifiers much more often when reforged than yellow-hot, yellow-hot more than orange-hot, and orange-hot more than red-hot.

    > The hotter the item is, the more ingots it costs to reforge it.

    The item would stay at its heat level for around 20-30 seconds, then cool down to the next one. This gives you some time to reforge it, then you can cool it off in a cauldron when it is done.

    This system would make the process of smithing much more realistic, but it has other merits. It means players have better control over the items they produce, and it takes more skill to make really powerful weapons. For example, if I am mass-producing weapons for an army, and I don’t want any variation between them good or bad, I could reforge any I don’t like only red-hot, and have a very good chance to get nothing at all. If I am making myself a formidable war hammer, I will heat it up white-hot. Additionally repairing hot items will require much less material than repairing cold items. This means taking the time to heat up your sword to yellow- or white-hot could save you several mithril ingots, even if it takes a few minutes.

    Here are some possible notes to enhance gameplay or change the system, while not being necessary to the basic mechanic:

    1. Blacksmiths, whenever reforging an item, could take the time to go over to their forge (which should be added to their structures), heat it up, then go to the anvil and reforge it. You could request a modifier for extra money and they would be likelier to forge that. This would mean hired forging actually takes a little time instead of just putting in a sword and a stack of coins and clicking until you get what you want. This may make the process too tedious however.

    2. As an alternative to making mithril sources rarer and rarer (which seems to have been the current strategy to limit usage), mithril items might only heat up very slowly like around 30-45 seconds for each level of heat. It could also cool off fast, meaning forging amazing mithril weapons would take a lot longer, so they would be harder to get. The advantage is cooling off orange-hot, yellow-hot and even white-hot mithril in a cauldron would not damage its durability at all because of its exceptional properties. Maybe it also would not melt no matter how long you leave it in the forge.

    3. There have been suggestions recommending learning skill from a blacksmith to forge certain things. I propose a very easy way to implement this: the anvil GUI can only be opened when right-clicking it with a Blacksmith Hammer. The player has to have alignment with a faction, find a blacksmith, be on good terms with them, and buy tools from them, so it is like learning from them. If the player is not holding a blacksmith hammer, right-clicking the anvil would result in smoke particles and a message telling the player to get a blacksmith hammer. I first brought up this idea here.

    4. It would be really annoying and a lot harder to get anything done if the item lost one level of heat each time it was reforged or repaired and had to be heated back up. This would be a good challenge, but it would make the process even slower and probably wouldn’t be very much fun. It could also just have a chance to immediately lose one heat level every time it was reforged.

    5. I have also seen suggestions recommending using experience levels for forging. That would work nicely with this: whenever you reforge an item, you will choose the amount of XP levels to spend. The more levels you have, the likelier it is you will get a good modifier. This will not change the likelihood of getting a modifier at all, and the tier of the modifier will still be limited by the heat.

    Thank you for reading this lengthy suggestion! The idea, while taking a long time to explain, is really simple in essence and I don’t think it should be unnecessarily complex to code because it’s based on the already implemented modifier system. It would give a better level of control over reforging and make it take more time and skill to compound the ultimate weapon, but less costly to maintain afterwards. Ideas and constructive criticism are welcome.

    Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • I would give you a kudo if I could...

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    • This is a pretty good idea, but if I may, (I don't want to sound like a jerk) what is the point of this update?

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    • I really like this suggestion. This could also make it so people who are unrealisticly making lots of weapons in seconds(as you pointed out), who have to work for awhile. And it would make modifiers more realistic.

      Rohan BannerHorseLordOfRohan Lord_Of_Horses (Message Me!)Rohan Banner

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    • IronJaw333 wrote: This is a pretty good idea, but if I may, (I don't want to sound like a jerk) what is the point of this update?

      The point is several things. Here are a few:

      • This will make getting good equipment with modifiers take some skill, rather than putting a stack of stuff in an anvil and clicking until you get what you want.
      • This will also make it take more time, making higher tier modifiers more valuable
      • This will save you material when repairing items (it can get absurd really fast now).
      • This will give you more control over what you get when you reforge.
      • This would be more fun in general.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • I would give several kudos if I could, one question; apart from balancing why do you need more ingots the hotter it is when reforging and less ingots the hotter it is repairing?

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    • Basically for balance. But it could also have a physical explanation. Here’s the balance explanation:

      Right now with material replacing experience, it takes an insane amount of material to repair nicely enchanted equipment. If you take the time to heat it up and put some effort in, it makes sense that you wouldn’t need to spend quite as much. Conversely when reforging, the hotter it is the higher tier modifiers you can get. They should be more expensive.

      Here’s an attempt at a physical explanation:

      When you are repairing an item at low temperatures it’s going to be hard. You will need a lot of extra metal to fill in scratches, notches and damage. If the piece is hotter then you can beat it back into its original shape, requiring less metal to repair. Reforging, on the other hand, is completely remaking it. I imagine it taking a lot more metal if the item is very hot and soft because it would be easier to mess up.

      I know that’s not an entirely good or knowledgeable explanation of what’s going on. It’s a simplification for balance.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • If this is added I think it would either be now while the reforging update is fresh in our heads or a lot later when the details of middle earth are being reviewed!

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    • Well. my kudos aint workin either

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    • @Fandalf: If the mod team sees this and likes it there is a good chance it would get added soon what with modifier additions like the blueprints in the next update. That being said the mod team doesn’t really seem to pay much attention to the forum. The alternative is probably more likely, but we will see.

      @FutureFox: Yeah let me know in a comment if you would like to give kudos, or if you don’t then state what you don’t like about the idea so we can discuss it.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • This is genius. I've always wanted to have a sword that was properly forged in, say, the River Limlight, and with this, it adds a realistic aspect to the anvil mechanics. I fully support this, Sir Lazuli.

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    • I would give kudos if u could.

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    • Another Excelent suggestion. You have my Kudo.

       Swordsbane (My internet is STILL fried...)

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    • One of the most thought-through suggestions I have ever seen in my life. I take my hat off to you. Except I'm not wearing one.

      Diamond Edhelgwath, Shade-Elf Diamond

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    • Thanks, I appreciate the feedback! I actually was working this one out for several months before posting it. It’s something that I would love to see implemented into the game.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • @Sir Lazuli This is an amazing idea! Big thumbs up! I do have a question though. Some of us like to use LotR modifiers and vanilla enchanting system combined. Should the vanilla enchantments affect the forging process in any way? Also, when you reforge an item, would you lose any vanilla enchantments already on the item?

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    • Thanks for the support! That’s an interesting factor that I hadn’t taken into account. Since vanilla enchantments are disabled by default I designed the system around only the LotR modifiers. Currently I don’t know how reforging works with vanilla enchantments. I don’t think this would change it significantly however, whether it already does or doesn’t remove vanilla enchantments. Vanilla enchanting would be done with the same process - enchanting table, etc. This would mostly affect combining different items to stack vanilla enchantments. Combining multiple items would have the same mechanics as repairing - the hotter you heat it the less material it costs - only I think it should have to be heated to at least some degree rather than repairing, which can be done cold. The different degrees of heat wouldn’t have any different effect on the enchantments, just on the material cost of combining the items.

      The other main thing anvils are used for in vanilla enchanting is combining equipment with enchanted books to enchant it. This wouldn’t really make sense if the item is glowing hot, so it should probably still be done cold. I can’t think of any benefit to heating up the equipment for that.

      As for affecting the forging process, I think it’s reasonable that enchantments like flame / fire aspect would speed up the heating process. Other than that they wouldn’t really make a difference.

      Anyway, like I said I haven’t actually tried using the two systems together and I’m not sure how it works with the new anvil and what costs experience or material, etc. Those are just my initial thoughts.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • A very good idea, it would add something that you can really feel that you are forging like a dwarf.

      But I am not sure, if it will be considered for an integration in the mod, at least not in the near future.

      But you could simplify your idea to make it less code needing. Your forge block could be similiar to vanilla enchantment tables. Those need bookshelves to get more potent, maybe it would be simpler to take that part of the code and replace the need for bookshelves with the need for lava, so your forge has to be in the proximity to lava, the more, the better and you get hotter items.

      To start simple, maybe the first stage would be just heated items, making them similar to enchanted ones from vanilla. If you use them on anvils/your forge block then, the chance is increased for better modifiers.

      It wouldnt be so complex like your idea, but it could be a starting point.

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    • Thanks for the feedback. Honestly I think the idea is fairly simple as is. Blacksmith forges checking for adjacent lava blocks is a good idea. However the different levels of heat really shouldn’t be too difficult to code - they are just treated as modifiers. I think they would just have counters that would create a weighted random chance for it to drop to the lower level, the chance increasing with time. The game will just check for the level of heat to see what bank of modifiers to choose from.

      Though I don’t know a whole lot of Java and have never tried to mod Minecraft, so please correct me if there’s a technical difficulty with implementing this type of system.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • AlteOgre
      AlteOgre removed this reply because:
      Shut up!
      14:20, February 28, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • This is an absolutely amazing suggestion. Though I don’t think that the chances of receiving good modifiers should decrease as the heat increases. Other than that, this suggestion is great! I would give it a kudo if I could!

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    • Thanks for the support! The reason I have proposed having the chances of good modifiers decreasing with heat increasing is to make the best ones harder to get. It really should be an accomplishment to forge a legendary blade. The idea is that you need to have the metal really hot to rework it to get the highest tier modifiers but the hotter the metal is the softer it is so it is easier to mess up. This is where experience, if reintroduced (Note 5), would be useful. It could increase the chances of getting a good modifier.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • Oh ok

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    • Here’s an idea. The more reputation you have with the faction that the weapon/tool is made by, the more “training/expertise” you have, assisting in the chance to get better modifiers. For example, say I have a Blue Dwarven Mattock I want to repair. If I have over, say, 1000 reputation with the Blue Dwarves, I would have an increased chance to get better modifiers when I reforge my mattock.

      This would incorporate your hard earned 1000+ reputation with a faction into the forging.

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    • Faelvindil wrote: Here’s an idea. The more reputation you have with the faction that the weapon/tool is made by, the more “training/expertise” you have, assisting in the chance to get better modifiers. For example, say I have a Blue Dwarven Mattock I want to repair. If I have over, say, 1000 reputation with the Blue Dwarves, I would have an increased chance to get better modifiers when I reforge my mattock.

      This would incorporate your hard earned 1000+ reputation with a faction into the forging.

      That is a nice idea Faelvindil, but a bit inrealistic. Simply having a high alignment/reputation with a faction would never give you an automatic "knowledge" of a faction's ways of crafting, reforging, etc. A more practical approach would be to have a player log that keeps track of the number of times you have reforged/created/smithed a faction's weapons and armor, providing said player with statistically accurate benefits depending on their knowledge/practiced hand at working with a faction's particular gear. For example, if I have smithed dwarven mattocks 5000 times, I should receive a statistically higher chance of getting good modifiers when I have smithed said mattocks using Lazuli's "White hot forging" method, than another player who has forged a measly 50 mattocks in comparison to my 5000.

      A fantastic way to implement your idea of having a better chance at making good gear with higher alignment Fael, would be to say that the smiths of different factions could, "improve" your skills in crafting by "teaching" you their ways, for a modest fee of course, and strictly for those they deem worthy. Aka, those who have a high alignment with the smith's faction. Think of it as a "train" button in a smith's inventory along with talk, smith, and trade, that only lights up once a player has for example, 1000 alignment with the smith's faction.

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    • I would like to see smiths improving skills in some way - a player shouldn’t just know how to make legendary weapons out of nowhere. Something like that could easily be integrated into a system like the one I am describing, but it’s a bit outside the scope of what I am proposing.

      If you could learn skills from smiths for faction gear, I would recommend incorporating experience as well. That way, you heat up the item to the right level, then reforge it (preferably with a set amount of experience, like the enchantment table, but some levels you could choose between). You would have to have learned from the faction to use the experience, but the knowledge on it’s own shouldn’t do anything without experience (otherwise it’s just easy maxed out weapons once you are don learning). If that makes sense.

      Either way, it’s not necessary to the basic proposal in the suggestion. It would be a cool feature but it doesn’t need to be added for this suggestion to be implemented.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • It was just a half-baked idea... lol.. thanks for the input though! Having the ability to “learn” from the blacksmiths would be neat.

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    • A FANDOM user
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