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  • AlteOgre
    AlteOgre closed this thread because:
    Expired.
    09:33, November 11, 2018

    If in future faction relationship change can become a thing (like previously neutral faction now hate/love each other due to player action/ major quest outcome), and Harad has multiple independent factions, then they can finally become an intersting region rather than a sideshow for westland.

    Currently Harad only has 4 independent factions and 3 of them hate that one other, it's really not that fun staying in the region. Open the realtionship window and see how many factions westland has and how many harad/rhun has and you will know what I mean

    Also, many of those sub-factions are interesting in lore and could provide interesting gameplay if they get to be independent factions.

    Like great desert faction, they are given the lore that they trade with ppl and usually don't engage in battle themselves. This faction could become the very first faction that has no ally or enemy and treat everyone as neutral, and provide mercenaries to players. This will create the first ever hireable units that attack ANY enemies on player's command, and it would be great to have players as "mercenary lord" who go with highest bidder in a server

    Others, like Umbar and Gulf and others, really have different lore and cultures. Combining all of them into a single faction just because they all serve Mordor is kinda unfair, It's like combining Angmar, Mordor and Godabad since they are all orcs serving Sauron

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    • I think the Gulfings, Umbar, Coast Southrons, Nomads etc. are all just subfactions of the Near Harad / Southron faction. They should all use the same alignment bar, like the fiefdoms of Gondor.

      EDIT: Please note this post was a response to a question about why there was still only one alignment bar for Near Harad after Beta 34 came out, before the thread turned into a suggestion.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

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    • Sir Lazuli wrote:
      I think the Gulfings, Umbar, Coastlings, Nomads etc. are all just subfactions of the Near Harad / Southron faction. They should all use the same alignment bar, like the fiefdoms of Gondor.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

      I see.....kinda disappointed, but I guess it is what it is

      During SmileBC's run down he mentioned how the Great Desert ppl trade around and avoid getting into conflicts, I thought there is finally a full neutral faction with hireable units..

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    • Lyserus wrote:
      Sir Lazuli wrote:
      I think the Gulfings, Umbar, Coastlings, Nomads etc. are all just subfactions of the Near Harad / Southron faction. They should all use the same alignment bar, like the fiefdoms of Gondor.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

      I see.....kinda disappointed, but I guess it is what it is

      During SmileBC's run down he mentioned how the Great Desert ppl trade around and avoid getting into conflicts, I thought there is finally a full neutral faction with hireable units..

      Morwaith mercenaries require no aligment, just 20 silver coins.

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    • 178.191.36.47 wrote:
      Lyserus wrote:
      Sir Lazuli wrote:
      I think the Gulfings, Umbar, Coastlings, Nomads etc. are all just subfactions of the Near Harad / Southron faction. They should all use the same alignment bar, like the fiefdoms of Gondor.

      Potatoplant LazuliShield2 Sir Lazuli, Guardian of the Mountains Come visit! ShovelAndSword Potatoplant

      I see.....kinda disappointed, but I guess it is what it is

      During SmileBC's run down he mentioned how the Great Desert ppl trade around and avoid getting into conflicts, I thought there is finally a full neutral faction with hireable units..

      Morwaith mercenaries require no aligment, just 20 silver coins.

      Ohhh nice

      But do they fight ANYONE tho? I mean like no matter who I command them to attack, they will do so without hesitation?

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    • No. They'll still attack enemies of Near Harad and will desert if your Near Harad alignment drops below 0.

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    • Imo some of the NH Subfacs should be their own factions. Namely Umbar and the Gulf. Or maybe just all of them. They are all certainly interesting enough

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    • Making the subfactions into actual factions would just be unnecessary clutter

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    • 2607:FEA8:1360:667:6DD1:39CA:1A65:BB8B wrote:
      Making the subfactions into actual factions would just be unnecessary clutter

      If in future faction relationship change can become a thing (like previously neutral faction now hate/love each other due to player action/ major quest outcome), and Harad has multiple independent factions, then they can finally become an intersting region rather than a sideshow for westland.

      Currently Harad only has 4 independent factions and 3 of them hate that one other, it's really not that fun staying in the region. Open the realtionship window and see how many factions westland has and how many harad/rhun has and you will know what I mean

      Also, many of those sub-factions are interesting in lore and could provide interesting gameplay if they get to be independent factions.

      Like great desert faction, they are given the lore that they trade with ppl and usually don't engage in battle themselves. This faction could become the very first faction that has no ally or enemy and treat everyone as neutral, and provide mercenaries to players. This will create the first ever hireable units that attack ANY enemies on player's command, and it would be great to have players as "mercenary lord" who go with highest bidder in a server

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    • 2607:FEA8:1360:667:6DD1:39CA:1A65:BB8B wrote:
      Making the subfactions into actual factions would just be unnecessary clutter

      Why is that so? To insinuate that the Gulflings have the same culture, customs, goals, ideals, and architechture as, say for example Umbar or Harnedor, is absolutely ludicrous.

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    • Moved to Suggestions Forum as it seems more relevant for there.

      Heraldry 2 Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)IthilionHeraldry

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    • Angmar, Mordor and Godabad since they are all orcs serving Sauron

      Eh, not really. The 3 are all quite spread out, and all have unique units, not saying the subfactions don't, but places like "Godabad" (:^)) have lore designed by Tolkien already, as Mevans developed the Subfactions himself, as Tolkien never actually gave a map of Harad, except the location of Umbar, and what the continent looked like. Dol Guldur, Angmar, and Gundabad also aren't allies with all Mordor's allies, but eachother.

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    • I think Umbar should be its own faction. Otherwise, ehhh, maybe. Probably not.

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    • 76.176.111.151 wrote:
      Angmar, Mordor and Godabad since they are all orcs serving Sauron
      Eh, not really. The 3 are all quite spread out, and all have unique units, not saying the subfactions don't, but places like "Godabad" (:^)) have lore designed by Tolkien already, as Mevans developed the Subfactions himself, as Tolkien never actually gave a map of Harad, except the location of Umbar, and what the continent looked like. Dol Guldur, Angmar, and Gundabad also aren't allies with all Mordor's allies, but eachother.

      Since only Umbar's lore is "cannon" and there is no mention that Umbar controls the whole Near Harad, I feel like it gives both playability reason and lore reason to get all near harad sub-factions their own factions.

      And also since there is no lore, these factions don't even have to be allies with each other, providing more playability since these factions can fight each other.

      Since there is not much cannon lore, it gives way for Mevans to implement the near harad to as fun as possible, don't you think?

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    • Erm, in no way is there some sort of higher government. There is only the tribe's loyalty to Sauron. Sauron is god and king of Near-Harad, and all there bow to him. However, wether this means they should have the same alignment bar, remains up to debate.

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    • Umbar shouldn't be it's own faction--they were no more than a naval component of the Haradrim. imo Gulfings and Nomads are far stronger candidates for such a role.

      Heraldry 2 Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)IthilionHeraldry

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:
      Umbar shouldn't be it's own faction--they were no more than a naval component of the Haradrim. imo Gulfings and Nomads are far stronger candidates for such a role.

      Heraldry 2 Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë)IthilionHeraldry

      Gulfling almost certainly are distinct enough from the west coast to be a separate faction <insert political joke here.> Nomads probably as well. They are also quite disctinct in their way of life and their culture. Having them be more developed as their own faction would be awesome.

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    • I'd love to see Morwaith splinter factions. The savannah, if one thinks about it, is extremely vast, and I find it highly doubtful that Near Harad would be able to keep all of its peoples on their side while at the same time attempting to prosecute a war with the West. A Morwaith faction which would be too religiously adhered to the "Great Lion," and continues to fight against the Half-trolls (one of their oldest and most hated enemies) and Near Haradrim would add some much-needed life to the people as a whole and liven up the geopolitical scenario of Far Harad. Its likely they'd be centred somewhere out of the reach of other factions, such as in the Savannah tucked against the Harad Mountains in the West. 

      Idk how anyone would feel about this, it's just a random thought I had. 

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    • From the discussions, it seems the best solution for everyone to agree on is:

      1.Haradrim and Coastling should be an independent faction

      2.Umbar either join in Haradrim or become an independent faction

      3.Gulfing and Great Desert each becomes an independent faction

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    • I support this. At the moment, the "Harad" section of the alignment bar feels very pointless. It only has 4 factions on it, and if the Cerinrim and the Limwaith are not going to be added then the Harad alignment bar needs something else!* It just isn't very realistic for someone living in (say) Harnedor to have to switch between alignment bars everytime they go to fight Gondor. Either scrap the Harad alignment bar or add more to it to make it feel worthwhile.

      But how should the factions be divided up? I'd go with..

      - Harnedor and Coast Southrons as one faction. ('Haradrim')

      -Umbar (+ Corsairs) as one faction.

      -Gulfings as their own faction.

      Nomads should be made up of Gulfings and Haradrim. They'd be independant but without their own alignment. Their gear would be craftable on Gulfing or Haradrim tables. They should be hireable with either Gulfing or Haradrim alignment.



      • Even if the Cerinrim and Limwaith are added, I'd still want to see this. Harad should be seen as a region (almost) equal in content to the Westlands.


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    • I feel like since Umbar and the Coastlings have the same structures, except for the units, they would be way to similar as a faction, and they even neighbor eachother.

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    • On TOS, Mevans said he thought there were already too many factions and it was dividing the player base too much, so I'm not sure he would want to break up factions even further. 

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    • Zombielizard wrote:
      On TOS, Mevans said he thought there were already too many factions and it was dividing the player base too much, so I'm not sure he would want to break up factions even further. 

      I thought the beauty of this mod is that there are many choices of factions...dividing player base doesn't sound like a logical conclusion, factions have allies and so for the players, if ppl want to interact then they can schedule a grand "battle of five armies" with their unique troops, too many factions doesn't change that.

      And on contratry, if region Harad wasn't developed with playability in this region in mind, then the revamp seems rather pointless

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    • AndZombielizard wrote:
      On TOS, Mevans said he thought there were already too many factions and it was dividing the player base too much, so I'm not sure he would want to break up factions even further. 

      And besides, if ppl want to play Umbar, Gulfing etc, they won't band together in one single place anyway. Sub-factions only limits their play style, like if you mix all dwarf factions into one faction, dwarf players are still identify themselves as 'blue mountain dwarf" "durin' folk" and live in their according regions

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    • I'm saying what he said, you bring up valid points, but that's what he said. 

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    • and in the end, it's his mod. 

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    • ^

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    • Wirebite101 wrote: ^

      Traditionally we kudo a comment instead of "^." This aint discord...

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    • Ok(btw i like your vids Arcen)

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    • Wirebite101 wrote:
      Ok(btw i like your vids Arcen)

      I have been spotted! Jumps out the window. ESCAPE!!!

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