Looks like it's yet another of my Orc suggestions.
Despite the name here, I won't get too gruesome - in fact, only two of these are actually in the realm of graphic violence. So no torture mechanics, body part items, puddles of blood, etc. This suggestion also isn't only about Orcs.
The Orcs are a barbaric bunch. It's why I love 'em. These changes should reflect their behaviour pretty well.
Orcs currently start skirmishes just with a line of dialogue. Pretty cool, but why not have a chance for these brawls to start in other ways?
Occasionally, an Orc will have a chance to start a skirmish by throwing an item at one of its buddies. This may be a hunk of maggoty bread, or a strip of flesh, or even, less commonly, a dagger. In the last situation, the Orc now bearing a dagger in his skull will die immediately. Whatever the item thrown, all Orcs nearby will begin a skirmish, with all sorts of insults being tossed at each other.
In another situation exclusive to the smaller breeds, a lone Snaga will slowly creep up to a larger Orc with dagger in hand. There's a 50/50 chance of success for the little guy: either the bigger one doesn't notice until he slumps down dead, or he catches the Snaga by surprise, and retaliates. In either case, the Snaga will try to retreat, while the brawl begins around him (there should be a very low chance he actually escapes, poor worm).
Speaking of retreating, all Orcs (and especially the smaller breeds) should have a chance to attempt a retreat in the case of a skirmish.
Orcs as they currently are have very consistent conversation starters, and those are really just insults. They could use some more variation in their dialogue, especially between breeds.
Snaga(s?) would speak mostly of the cruelty of their masters, perhaps the work they must attend to. They wouldn't show any respect to you (as reflected by the current speechbanks) until you have +500 alignment with their faction: after that, they'd speak to you a bit more respectfully, although they might be a little more fearful of you.
Common Orcs would be much more jolly - for Orcs, of course. They'd treat you more as an equal after +100 alignment with the occasional insult thrown in. After +500, they'd be slightly more respectful. They'd also have some sort of humour amongst themselves: mostly about what might happen if one steps out of line. There'd definitely be some fear about their masters.
The Isengarders are a race apart. They'd boast and brag about their superiority quite often, degrading you and the lesser Orcs quite often. They'd also boast about their respect for Saruman.
The Uruks of Mordor and Gundabad would share the same speechbank as the Common Orcs, but with slightly higher alignment requirements: +250 for them to treat you as an equal, and +700 to be respected. They'd also insult you a bit more, and would have a few lines regarding their disdain for the lesser breeds.
The Gundabad Orcs fall in somewhere between the Snaga and the Common Orc. They'd be in fearful awe of you once you reach +500, but after +100 they'd treat you as an equal. They wouldn't speak about the bosses unlike the other Orc breeds, but they might have a few lines regarding past chieftains (Bolg for example) with respect.
Click expand to see a few examples I've come up with.
Snaga: "Curse the stinging whips! Curse the filthy Uruk-folk! What're you looking at, scum?"
0-+500: "Move along, filth! I've got work to do."
+500: "Player! I was just getting to work!"
0-+100: "Man-scum, eh? You'll not last long!"
+100-250: "No good ending up in the pot. Keep on your toes, Player, or we'll be eating 'em!"
+500: "Work's gettin' heavy, whips gettin' sharper. The Eye's on you, Player."
Uruk-hai: "Be helpful now, Man-filth! We have ways of repaying unkindness. Ha!"
Wargs could honestly use an update, but I'll just be suggesting something to add to the brutality of Orc culture.
Very simply, small packs of Wargs would rarely attack nearby Orcs. Only the smaller ones, i.e. the Snaga(s? I seriously have no idea what the plural of this is) would be able to be targeted. Whether this is hunger related, just for sport, or if it's some Warg-owner's idea of a joke, they would savagely kill the poor maggot that got on its nerves. For those worried, tamed Wargs wouldn't do this.
Specifically, Olog-hai, Hill-trolls, Snow-trolls, and all the others aside from the regular Troll mob. This idea comes from a separate suggestion I made ages ago, but it fits in with this suggestion's theme.
"At Pippin’s side Beregond was stunned and overborne, and he fell; and the great troll-chief that smote him down bent over him, reaching out a clutching claw; for these fell creatures would bite the throats of those that they threw down." Return of the King, The Black Gate Opens
After killing an enemy unit, Trolls would stand still for a moment as they devour a piece of Man-flesh. This would be the only instance of these Trolls eating any kind of food item.
While it has its own aesthetic horror, this mechanic also serves a purpose: while the Troll is standing absolutely still, just ready to be attacked, they'd also take 2x the amount of damage. I play almost solely as an evil player, but Trolls (especially the Olog-hai) need some sort of weakness.
This is the other gruesome idea, and this aesthetic change would only apply to Snaga(s?) and (when added) scouts.
" 'I know,' growled Uglúk. 'The cursed horse-boys have got wind of us. But that's all your fault, Snaga. You and the other scouts ought to have your ears cut off. But we are the fighters. We'll feast on horseflesh yet, or something better.' " The Two Towers, The Uruk-hai
The Orcs of this breed would have a small chance to spawn missing one or both ears, with a nasty-looking scar in the way.
To represent the other painful aspects of Orkish discipline, Snaga(s?) would also use different skins from other Orcs. They'd be a lot more bruised and scarred, with old and fresh wounds alike.
This suggestion was a long one. These ideas would add a lot of depth to Orcs, and to the mod. I'd love to see them implemented, of course. If you have any macabre ideas of your own, or want to suggest the removal of one of mine, feel free to leave a comment.
I don’t like the last 3, wargs aren’t in skirmishes because they can be ridden, and if they skirmish an evil player can’t find a good warg for a long, long time, as the good ones are already hard to find compared to horses, making them skirmish would make them harder to tame. This would debuff trolls significantly, as they are meant to be a swarming mass (at least when I hire them) even if there’s only 2, hill trolls are big and do fast attacks. And if they stop to eat, their swarming is negated. Too gruesome, the missing ears are. And I think that sometimes that orcs do spawn with no ears and instead scars on the sides of their heads.
2607:FB90:361B:9B2C:B5F0:B370:B328:822B wrote: I don’t like the last 3, wargs aren’t in skirmishes because they can be ridden, and if they skirmish an evil player can’t find a good warg for a long, long time, as the good ones are already hard to find compared to horses, making them skirmish would make them harder to tame. This would debuff trolls significantly, as they are meant to be a swarming mass (at least when I hire them) even if there’s only 2, hill trolls are big and do fast attacks. And if they stop to eat, their swarming is negated. Too gruesome, the missing ears are. And I think that sometimes that orcs do spawn with no ears and instead scars on the sides of their heads.
It's not a skirmish so much as it is a bunch of Wargs murdering a single Orc. And as I said, it would be uncommon.
Trolls should be debuffed, especially the Olog-hai. Currently, they move way too fast, aren't affected by any other debuffs, and can knock you back a few hundred miles away. And keep in mind, this added weakness would only affect you using them if they killed an NPC near other NPCs (that might not even focus on the Troll).
I don't really agree that the missing ears are too gruesome, but it's too subjective to argue. If they can already spawn with scars in place of ears, I never noticed.
This would give orcs very much variety, especially considering Grievous' many suggestions on Orc Factions, and that is the reason why I love it. Maybe the period of Trolls standing still to devour their victim could be depending on its size and/or armor?
Nice suggestion! For the plural of Snaga, I believe the most commonly used term is Snagae. One thing. Every single time a troll kills an enemy unit, it stands and eats? That would be quite a lot, seeing as they kill efficiently. Maybe make it a 50/50 chance? Or perhaps, after they've been out of combat, they begin to consume.
Hûkrag wrote: Nice suggestion! For the plural of Snaga, I believe the most commonly used term is Snagae. One thing. Every single time a troll kills an enemy unit, it stands and eats? That would be quite a lot, seeing as they kill efficiently. Maybe make it a 50/50 chance? Or perhaps, after they've been out of combat, they begin to consume.
I see Snagae a lot, but I've never seen a source provided for it. It seems to me more like affixing a Latin plural onto the word for convenience. I think Nazgûl is used several times in a plural context without any sort of addition, so perhaps the plural is just Snaga.
You're right about trolls eating maybe being too common. I think 50/50 is the way to go.
Yes. Snaga is the correct plural. Nazgûl is plural and single. Black Riders is the plural (technically). I normally play as a good player and when I engage combat with trolls of any kind I kill 1 if I’m lucky. In The Lord of The Rings books Frodo stabs a troll in the foot and it “runs” away (As well as you can run with a stabbed foot jammed in a door.). Trolls at the black gate were killed not quickly but easily if you think about it. I think they should still be 50/50.
Alright, thanks for the clarification both of you guys! Also, perhaps orcs will skirmish with Easterlings and Haradrim too? I could certainly see a snaga sneaking up to a Haradrim decked in jewelery, and trying to kill him, only to start a battle between the Haradrim and the orcs nearby.
Hûkrag wrote: Alright, thanks for the clarification both of you guys! Also, perhaps orcs will skirmish with Easterlings and Haradrim too? I could certainly see a snaga sneaking up to a Haradrim decked in jewelery, and trying to kill him, only to start a battle between the Haradrim and the orcs nearby.
The motive seems solid. It should still be pretty rare.